Early Nokias (2010, 1610, 1620, 1630) incompatible with modern SIMs - fix possible? - GSM-Forum

Jellybaby · 02-19-2010, 20:13

Hi,

Does anyone have firmware/flashing hardware/software for early Nokia phones? (2010, 1610/1611, 1620,1630, maybe 2110 too?)

Early Nokia GSM phones are incompatible with some modern SIM cards. The phone says "CARD REJECTED" when turned on with an incompatible SIM. I have tested a Nokia 2010 (NHE-3DN), 1610 or 1611 (NHE-5NX and NHE-5SX) and 1620 (NHK-5PT), and they all do that. I don't have a Nokia 1011, which was the earliest Nokia GSM phone, to test.

The first SIM cards worked at 5V. To save power, later SIMs were 3V-capable; they could work at either 3V or 5V.

My theory is that the problem happens with 3V-only SIMs, i.e. ones which do not work at 5V. In recent years (maybe the last 3 years or so), new SIMs for the UK Orange and Vodafone networks don't work in old Nokia phones. As far as I know, new SIMs from the other two UK networks, O2 and T-Mobile (formerly one2one) do still work; even 3G-compatible O2 SIMs work fine. So I'm guessing that new O2 and T-Mobile SIMs are 5V-compatible.

The Nokia phones are designed to work with both 5V-only and dual-voltage 3V/5V-capable SIMs. According to the NHE-5 service manual (available on various web sites), the setup is like this:

At power-on, the SIM voltage provided by the power ASIC defaults to 3V.
Code in the firmware sets the SIM voltage to 5V at startup. It then checks whether the SIM reports itself as 3V-capable, and if so changes SIM voltage to 3V.

The problem is that system fails for 3V-only SIMs, which don't work at 5V -- that could be the reason why some recent SIMs are incompatible. I'd like to be able to use any modern SIM in my old brick Nokia phones.

There could be two solutions to this:

Patch the phone's firmware to never set the SIM voltage to 5V. Or better, only set SIM voltage to 5V if there is no response from the SIM at 3V. Does anyone have firmware files for the very early Nokia phones? What flashing hardware would be needed?
Modify the phone's PCB. From looking at the NHE-5 schematics, there are 5 signal lines going from the MCU to the power IC. Hopefully, one of those is used to control the SIM voltage. Cutting that line and tying it high or low should force the SIM voltage to always be 3V. (That would fail with 5V-only SIMs, but almost no-one has those any more I think?) But if the CPU->power ASIC communication isn't as simple as that, just cutting one line won't work. And especially if the ICs are in BGA packages, the signal traces might not be accessible for cutting anyway.

Has anyone got any other ideas or info about this?

khalif · 06-11-2015, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellybaby

Hi,

Does anyone have firmware/flashing hardware/software for early Nokia phones? (2010, 1610/1611, 1620,1630, maybe 2110 too?)

Early Nokia GSM phones are incompatible with some modern SIM cards. The phone says "CARD REJECTED" when turned on with an incompatible SIM. I have tested a Nokia 2010 (NHE-3DN), 1610 or 1611 (NHE-5NX and NHE-5SX) and 1620 (NHK-5PT), and they all do that. I don't have a Nokia 1011, which was the earliest Nokia GSM phone, to test.

The first SIM cards worked at 5V. To save power, later SIMs were 3V-capable; they could work at either 3V or 5V.

My theory is that the problem happens with 3V-only SIMs, i.e. ones which do not work at 5V. In recent years (maybe the last 3 years or so), new SIMs for the UK Orange and Vodafone networks don't work in old Nokia phones. As far as I know, new SIMs from the other two UK networks, O2 and T-Mobile (formerly one2one) do still work; even 3G-compatible O2 SIMs work fine. So I'm guessing that new O2 and T-Mobile SIMs are 5V-compatible.

The Nokia phones are designed to work with both 5V-only and dual-voltage 3V/5V-capable SIMs. According to the NHE-5 service manual (available on various web sites), the setup is like this:

At power-on, the SIM voltage provided by the power ASIC defaults to 3V.
Code in the firmware sets the SIM voltage to 5V at startup. It then checks whether the SIM reports itself as 3V-capable, and if so changes SIM voltage to 3V.

The problem is that system fails for 3V-only SIMs, which don't work at 5V -- that could be the reason why some recent SIMs are incompatible. I'd like to be able to use any modern SIM in my old brick Nokia phones.

There could be two solutions to this:

Patch the phone's firmware to never set the SIM voltage to 5V. Or better, only set SIM voltage to 5V if there is no response from the SIM at 3V. Does anyone have firmware files for the very early Nokia phones? What flashing hardware would be needed?
Modify the phone's PCB. From looking at the NHE-5 schematics, there are 5 signal lines going from the MCU to the power IC. Hopefully, one of those is used to control the SIM voltage. Cutting that line and tying it high or low should force the SIM voltage to always be 3V. (That would fail with 5V-only SIMs, but almost no-one has those any more I think?) But if the CPU->power ASIC communication isn't as simple as that, just cutting one line won't work. And especially if the ICs are in BGA packages, the signal traces might not be accessible for cutting anyway.

Has anyone got any other ideas or info about this?

I have the same problems with 8810 and 8850

debeliamark · 06-12-2015, 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalif

I have the same problems with 8810 and 8850

Instead to try to modify phone, may is easy to SIM-clone customer card ?

khalif · 06-12-2015, 16:33

Made a mistake there, it was 2110 not 8810, 8810 is fine.
I have a Sim reader but it does nothing with modern Sims except give me the list
of phone numbers. Is there some seriously good soft that I can use to clone a new sim onto an old sim, retrieve pin etc?

debeliamark · 06-15-2015, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalif

Made a mistake there, it was 2110 not 8810, 8810 is fine.
I have a Sim reader but it does nothing with modern Sims except give me the list
of phone numbers. Is there some seriously good soft that I can use to clone a new sim onto an old sim, retrieve pin etc?

No - no ask just provider to give you KI and IMSI ... there after comp 128 v2 no way to extract data from existing SIM card ... or ask provider for old one to activate for you - here in BG M-Tel make this service for clients that own some "old" cars with integrated phones that use 5V SIM-s

02-19-2010, 20:13	#1 (permalink)
Jellybaby Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3 Member: 125728 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 0	Early Nokias (2010, 1610, 1620, 1630) incompatible with modern SIMs - fix possible? Hi, Does anyone have firmware/flashing hardware/software for early Nokia phones? (2010, 1610/1611, 1620,1630, maybe 2110 too?) Early Nokia GSM phones are incompatible with some modern SIM cards. The phone says "CARD REJECTED" when turned on with an incompatible SIM. I have tested a Nokia 2010 (NHE-3DN), 1610 or 1611 (NHE-5NX and NHE-5SX) and 1620 (NHK-5PT), and they all do that. I don't have a Nokia 1011, which was the earliest Nokia GSM phone, to test. The first SIM cards worked at 5V. To save power, later SIMs were 3V-capable; they could work at either 3V or 5V. My theory is that the problem happens with 3V-only SIMs, i.e. ones which do not work at 5V. In recent years (maybe the last 3 years or so), new SIMs for the UK Orange and Vodafone networks don't work in old Nokia phones. As far as I know, new SIMs from the other two UK networks, O2 and T-Mobile (formerly one2one) do still work; even 3G-compatible O2 SIMs work fine. So I'm guessing that new O2 and T-Mobile SIMs are 5V-compatible. The Nokia phones are designed to work with both 5V-only and dual-voltage 3V/5V-capable SIMs. According to the NHE-5 service manual (available on various web sites), the setup is like this: At power-on, the SIM voltage provided by the power ASIC defaults to 3V. Code in the firmware sets the SIM voltage to 5V at startup. It then checks whether the SIM reports itself as 3V-capable, and if so changes SIM voltage to 3V. The problem is that system fails for 3V-only SIMs, which don't work at 5V -- that could be the reason why some recent SIMs are incompatible. I'd like to be able to use any modern SIM in my old brick Nokia phones. There could be two solutions to this: Patch the phone's firmware to never set the SIM voltage to 5V. Or better, only set SIM voltage to 5V if there is no response from the SIM at 3V. Does anyone have firmware files for the very early Nokia phones? What flashing hardware would be needed? Modify the phone's PCB. From looking at the NHE-5 schematics, there are 5 signal lines going from the MCU to the power IC. Hopefully, one of those is used to control the SIM voltage. Cutting that line and tying it high or low should force the SIM voltage to always be 3V. (That would fail with 5V-only SIMs, but almost no-one has those any more I think?) But if the CPU->power ASIC communication isn't as simple as that, just cutting one line won't work. And especially if the ICs are in BGA packages, the signal traces might not be accessible for cutting anyway. Has anyone got any other ideas or info about this?

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06-12-2015, 16:33	#4 (permalink)
khalif Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 30 Member: 44804 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 1	Made a mistake there, it was 2110 not 8810, 8810 is fine. I have a Sim reader but it does nothing with modern Sims except give me the list of phone numbers. Is there some seriously good soft that I can use to clone a new sim onto an old sim, retrieve pin etc?