Having Problems with Jovy RE-7500 - GSM-Forum

treesmoker · 01-08-2012, 00:40

Hey guys,

I've actually been a member for a little while now but i've really just been looking up/reading threads to learn more about individuals experiences with this machine to better my performance with the Jovy.

A little bit about me: I've worked with computers for around 6-7 year and professionally I've worked as an I.T Technician for the past two years and have very good knowledge of hardware/software. In July 2011 I went to Insat International in London UK where I had a 1 day of paid training on a Jovy RE-7500 before purchasing the unit. Whilst on the training day we reflowed Laptop Motherboards successfully using both Amtech Flux and Insat Super Flux (Specially formulated RMA flux for the removal of Oxyidation). These all are still working to this day...

Unfortunatly since returning from the training and setting up my Jovy, I have yet to Reflow any BGA successfully.

Here is what I am doing:

Example using XBOX 360 Xenon Board.
1) Removing Mobo from chasis and place into xbox Support Jig to stop warping.
2) Clean old thermal paste using Artic Silver Thermal Paste Remover.
3) Apply Insat Super Flux undernieth the BGA (GPU) by method of tilting board whilst applying liquid flux to ensure that flux flow underneith board so that all solder balls are coated.
4) Place TC (with around 4mm bent tip) laying flat on the PCB along side BGA chip and apply Amtech flux onto TC for better accurracy.
5) start the Jovy using Software mode with the following profile:

1) LH: Preheat / UH: OFF - Untill 80c (85c flux starts activating/bubbling)
2) LH: Reflow / UH: Reflow In Park Mode - Untill 180c
3) LH: Fast Reflow / UH: Reflow In Normal Mode at Level 7 - untill 217c
4) LH: Fast Reflow / UH: Fast Reflow at Level 7 - Above TAL to 235c
5) Spend 15 Seconds at 235c before switch off both LH + UH and reducing temperature WITHOUT fan.
6) once board is at room temperture remove, apply AS5 and re-assemble.

So far every single board I have reflowed has "popcorned" the IC and I have killed 30+ Boards

I did some tests on an xbox 360 mobo with the GPU removed and at 230c All solder balls are liquidus and properly reflown.

I really hope I have provided enough information and that somebody here can help me successfully reflow at least one board and start making some money......instead of burning it. Honestly I am at whits end and I am very close to giving up but for all of the equipment I have spent well over £2,000 and I am determined to make it work!

I will photograph all of my kit tomorrow so that you know exactly what I am working with...

Thankyou all for reading

treesmoker · 01-08-2012, 01:55

Pictures as promised:

Jovy RE-7500

Popcorned Chip

Xbox 360 Support Jig Top Side

Xbox 360 Support Jig Back Side

TC Placement

Jovy With Xbox Jig Mounted

monitron · 01-10-2012, 20:52

It seems that you provide too much heat for too long.

What does popcorn / delaminate, the board or the GPU?

How long does the complete process take?

Did you check the temp. reading, is it correct?

If all goes correct you must be able to push the BGA very carefully and it must move (will go in the right place by itself) at 217 deg. I always check manually because i don't trus the profiles and the temp reading.

235 is much too high. You only need to go above 220 when you do ps3.

Also preheating the board to 180 deg is too high. For xbox i preheat to 145 deg. Then i swing over the UH that is on Reflow allready. Carefully watch the temp reading. It has to be about 2 deg/sec. If it is faster higher the upper heater and if it becomes lower you must switch to FR.

Use enough flux and keep the GPU at max 220 deg for about 30 sec.

treesmoker · 01-10-2012, 21:45

First of all thankyou so much for your reply, I was starting to think I was in a ghost town for a second, I appreciate it man....

Quote:

It seems that you provide too much heat for too long.

What does popcorn / delaminate, the board or the GPU?

It's always the GPU that delaminates/popcorns, never the mobo

Quote:

How long does the complete process take?

I'll be completly honest, I havn't timed the complete reflow process

Quote:

Did you check the temp. reading, is it correct?

How would I check? I assumed because at 227-230c all solder balls were liquidus then that must be the correct maxium temp?

Quote:

If all goes correct you must be able to push the BGA very carefully and it must move (will go in the right place by itself) at 217 deg. I always check manually because i don't trus the profiles and the temp reading.

To be fair I have tried nudging the IC with dental probes and at around 207c it easily moves then reseats itself.

Quote:

235 is much too high. You only need to go above 220 when you do ps3.

Okay understood, so what should the maxium temp for 1) Xbox 2) PS3 RSX be?

Quote:

Also preheating the board to 180 deg is too high. For xbox i preheat to 145 deg. Then i swing over the UH that is on Reflow allready. Carefully watch the temp reading. It has to be about 2 deg/sec. If it is faster higher the upper heater and if it becomes lower you must switch to FR.

Could you possiblily give a detailed step-by-step of UH/LH settings + UH hieght level similar to my first post so that I can get a better understanding of where I am going wrong.

Quote:

Use enough flux and keep the GPU at max 220 deg for about 30 sec.

Ah that brings me to my next question.

Once you reach the maxium temperature (217c/225c/235c or whatever) how do you maintain that temperture without the UH exceeding the Maxium within seconds?

monitron · 01-11-2012, 19:57

You can (double) check the temp readings with a handheld IR temparature meter with laser pointer. They are not so accurate but still good enough for quickly check te reading of the jovy. Cost about 60$

If you can move the chip at 207deg then that is the temp where the solder gets liquid. I also use a dental tool for that. You can see that 207 is actually 215-217 degrees so your reading is about 8 degrees to low. That's why i always check manually by checking if the chip moves. If you go until 235 deg it is not so strange that your chip popcorns (235+7=242).

I never use profile's I always control the Jovy by hand. Profile's must be fine tuned because your room temperature and the tolerance of your temp. probe is not the same as with the person who made the profile. Even the jig can make a difference.

What i do for reflowing a xbox (i do never relow but always reball)

1. set the LH to preheat until it reaches 55-60deg

2. then switch the UH to reflow (leave it parked) and LH to fast reflow (only if you use a jig else set it to reflow!!)

3. when the board is about 150 deg swing over the UH (check with the IR meter)

4. now carefully watch the temp, it must climb max 2deg/sec. If it is faster set the UH 5mm higher. Lower, if it is lower, lower it 5mm. When i use a jig i set it just under 7 for xbox. When the temp is about 185deg switch the UH to fast reflow.

5. when the temp reaches 205 (check with the IR meter) you begin checking if the chip moves. As soon as it moves start a timer (a cheap one to cook eggs will do) that counts from 60 seconds to zero.

6. Switch off the UH when the temp reaches about 213 deg but leave it in place. The temp will go to 220 and then drops very slowly. You must figure out for your self when you exactly switch it off. As long as the temp never gets passed 220!

7. When the timer is at about 20 second the temp will be around 215 put the UH in park and switch both heaters to OFF.

8. when the temp is at about 195 deg switch on the fan. The timer must will be around 0 then

9. let the board cool until room temp. Clean off the exessive flux with IPA or flux cleaner and test the Xbox.

some tips:

don't cover the complete board with reflective tape. Leave about 1 cm from the chip blank. It will help to shorten the process. Especially with the PS3 you will hardly reach the 235 deg if you do that. The 7500 has to work hard to reflow a PS3

Turn the board 180 degrees because on you picture the UH will hit the usb connectors when swinging it over.

When you succeed in doing this you can always make your own profile for this. But until that time my advise would be to contol the Jovy manual (not on the machine but with the software!!).

Also read this post from Raheeeb:

RE7500 fast process in 120 seconds

It is pretty much the same as how i work.

Good Luck!!

treesmoker · 01-12-2012, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by monitron

You can (double) check the temp readings with a handheld IR temparature meter with laser pointer. They are not so accurate but still good enough for quickly check te reading of the jovy. Cost about 60$

If you can move the chip at 207deg then that is the temp where the solder gets liquid. I also use a dental tool for that. You can see that 207 is actually 215-217 degrees so your reading is about 8 degrees to low. That's why i always check manually by checking if the chip moves. If you go until 235 deg it is not so strange that your chip popcorns (235+7=242).

I never use profile's I always control the Jovy by hand. Profile's must be fine tuned because your room temperature and the tolerance of your temp. probe is not the same as with the person who made the profile. Even the jig can make a difference.

What i do for reflowing a xbox (i do never relow but always reball)

1. set the LH to preheat until it reaches 55-60deg

2. then switch the UH to reflow (leave it parked) and LH to fast reflow (only if you use a jig else set it to reflow!!)

3. when the board is about 150 deg swing over the UH (check with the IR meter)

4. now carefully watch the temp, it must climb max 2deg/sec. If it is faster set the UH 5mm higher. Lower, if it is lower, lower it 5mm. When i use a jig i set it just under 7 for xbox. When the temp is about 185deg switch the UH to fast reflow.

5. when the temp reaches 205 (check with the IR meter) you begin checking if the chip moves. As soon as it moves start a timer (a cheap one to cook eggs will do) that counts from 60 seconds to zero.

6. Switch off the UH when the temp reaches about 213 deg but leave it in place. The temp will go to 220 and then drops very slowly. You must figure out for your self when you exactly switch it off. As long as the temp never gets passed 220!

7. When the timer is at about 20 second the temp will be around 215 put the UH in park and switch both heaters to OFF.

8. when the temp is at about 195 deg switch on the fan. The timer must will be around 0 then

9. let the board cool until room temp. Clean off the exessive flux with IPA or flux cleaner and test the Xbox.

some tips:

don't cover the complete board with reflective tape. Leave about 1 cm from the chip blank. It will help to shorten the process. Especially with the PS3 you will hardly reach the 235 deg if you do that. The 7500 has to work hard to reflow a PS3

Turn the board 180 degrees because on you picture the UH will hit the usb connectors when swinging it over.

When you succeed in doing this you can always make your own profile for this. But until that time my advise would be to contol the Jovy manual (not on the machine but with the software!!).

Also read this post from Raheeeb:

RE7500 fast process in 120 seconds

It is pretty much the same as how i work.

Good Luck!!

WOW! monitron what can I say, most forums give 2 line answers that really don't explain their answer, but yours....well I think I might as well have been spoon fed!

I have just tried your technique on a test Xenon CPU and the chip moved at 211c this time and temp stay at around 217 - 221c for roughly 10 seconds using your detailed method of switching off both heaters at 213c but leaving them in place, and the board never exceeded 221c through the whole reflow process. The board is currently cooling and from what I can see their has been no delamination.

I will try this method on a 0102 xbox GPU and report back as soon as possible on my results.

can you note any different varibles for PS3's or laptop motherboards (nVidia chip on HP laptops for example) i.e different temps for steps 1) - 9)

and in your experience which is the better machine a Jovy RE-7500 or a ACHI IR PRO -SC because lots of people are using these machines with a much higher sucess rate, mainly due to larger preheater, accurate temps and more even heat? what are your comments?

Honestly I really can't appreciate what you've done by replying, if this works on a 0102 board then you will have relit the passion with reworking!

treesmoker · 01-12-2012, 00:45

OKAY UPDATE: closer inspection after cleaning with IPA shows their is one very small spot on the right hand side of the chip which is probably a 3mm circle of delamination ("popcorned" effect) however I am sure this just means I need to switch off the heaters at 210c-211c rather than 213c and to not exceed 217c-218c on jovy software (217c+6c = 223c/224c) which should be safe.

Complete reflow from 0c - 221c - 0c took close to 900 secs. is that normal?

monitron · 01-12-2012, 18:40

I think you still have to check the reading of your temp probe with a second temp meter. Also clean the temp probe now and then. It gets coverd with flux residu.

Personally i never let the temp go above 220 for an xbox. It is up to you to get the right balance. I cannot help you with that because tolerance between machine, temp sensor and room temp make difference. That's why profile's cannot be trusted so easy.

This isn't a job you can learn in one month. It took me almost a year to get things right.

treesmoker · 01-12-2012, 19:22

Hi Monitron,

I completly understand what your saying regarding room temperature/tolerance that are never the same in two different environments/machines.

I clean my TC regulary because as you have stated it gets caked in flux after each reflow.

Last questions before I start my (slightly painful) journey to perfecting this machine:

can you note any different varibles for PS3's or laptop motherboards (nVidia chip on HP laptops for example) i.e different temps for steps 1) - 9)

and in your experience which is the better machine a Jovy RE-7500 or a ACHI IR PRO -SC because lots of people are using these machines with a much higher sucess rate, mainly due to larger preheater, accurate temps and more even heat? what are your comments?

monitron · 01-15-2012, 19:29

Sorry but i cannot give you all that information for different boards. As long as you take time for pre-heat (ps3 and xbox at 145deg and notebooks 100 - 120 deg) and as long as you carefully watch on what temp the tin melts you can make your own profiles for different boards. It helps you to understand the process of reflow and reball better.

I have no experience with the Achi but i can say that the RE-7500 is a very good and reliable machine. The lower heater is a bit small and that is a small problem when you do PS3. But overall i did almost 500 repairs with my RE-7500 and had no problems.

Since one month i have a RE-8500 wich i am learning to work with.

ian8115 · 01-20-2012, 09:46

Monitron is bang on here. Every board is different, every machine is different. Also Room temp makes a big difference! Never trust your temp gauge, remember its only a guide. Always gently tap or move the GPU for movement to know you have successfully melted all balls.

For example balls connected to big grounding plates will usually be the last to melt so that's often why boards behave differently, along with component location and board thickness. Also I agree that it took me over a year to get good at it. Now I reball everyday and cannot remember the last time one failed, it will come with time but its not an overnight money spinner...

orwellcomputers · 01-29-2012, 18:15

So how are you getting on treesmoker?

yudi81 · 02-16-2012, 17:55

@ treesmokers

i've been dealing with hundreds of xbox360
youre preheat temp was too high , 150c is enough.

reflow process until 200c is enough for xbox execpt you gonna do reball.
235c will definitely kill the chip..

check this out : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze1cV_NRKcA

yudi81 · 02-17-2012, 05:59

@ treesmokers

reflow process until 200c is enough for xbox execpt,
a succesful process will make u earn money right (the prove of customer sattisfaction)
if 200c cant solved the case then a reball is needed. even for desoldering lead free gpu xbox i have never exceed 225c..
there are some tricks to avoid popcorning on xbox gpu chip..

please dont use those jig , use the original jovy supporter , it will absorb the heat much faster. ( from 150c to liquidous in 2mnt)

thnx

**Dan Collins** · 02-18-2012, 16:04

It’s all about maintaining proper temps to prevent overheating while achieving a liquid state. Make sure the TC's are reading correctly. You also prob have the upper heater too low, and frankly you have to have it low to get the big BGA's to heat up. Which is where the problem lies. Adjusting the position of the upper heater, try to achieve a 2-4C per sec ramp rate.

The real issue is the BGAs on the XBOX are really too large for the RE7500 heaters to do a proper job. I have found the RE7500 to be excellent on any BGA 30mm or less. I have purchased an RE8500 for the larger chips.

I have a 99% repair rate using this practice.

01-08-2012, 00:40	#1 (permalink)
treesmoker Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 9 Member: 1300568 Status: Offline Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Having Problems with Jovy RE-7500 Hey guys, I've actually been a member for a little while now but i've really just been looking up/reading threads to learn more about individuals experiences with this machine to better my performance with the Jovy. A little bit about me: I've worked with computers for around 6-7 year and professionally I've worked as an I.T Technician for the past two years and have very good knowledge of hardware/software. In July 2011 I went to Insat International in London UK where I had a 1 day of paid training on a Jovy RE-7500 before purchasing the unit. Whilst on the training day we reflowed Laptop Motherboards successfully using both Amtech Flux and Insat Super Flux (Specially formulated RMA flux for the removal of Oxyidation). These all are still working to this day... Unfortunatly since returning from the training and setting up my Jovy, I have yet to Reflow any BGA successfully. Here is what I am doing: Example using XBOX 360 Xenon Board. 1) Removing Mobo from chasis and place into xbox Support Jig to stop warping. 2) Clean old thermal paste using Artic Silver Thermal Paste Remover. 3) Apply Insat Super Flux undernieth the BGA (GPU) by method of tilting board whilst applying liquid flux to ensure that flux flow underneith board so that all solder balls are coated. 4) Place TC (with around 4mm bent tip) laying flat on the PCB along side BGA chip and apply Amtech flux onto TC for better accurracy. 5) start the Jovy using Software mode with the following profile: 1) LH: Preheat / UH: OFF - Untill 80c (85c flux starts activating/bubbling) 2) LH: Reflow / UH: Reflow In Park Mode - Untill 180c 3) LH: Fast Reflow / UH: Reflow In Normal Mode at Level 7 - untill 217c 4) LH: Fast Reflow / UH: Fast Reflow at Level 7 - Above TAL to 235c 5) Spend 15 Seconds at 235c before switch off both LH + UH and reducing temperature WITHOUT fan. 6) once board is at room temperture remove, apply AS5 and re-assemble. So far every single board I have reflowed has "popcorned" the IC and I have killed 30+ Boards I did some tests on an xbox 360 mobo with the GPU removed and at 230c All solder balls are liquidus and properly reflown. I really hope I have provided enough information and that somebody here can help me successfully reflow at least one board and start making some money......instead of burning it. Honestly I am at whits end and I am very close to giving up but for all of the equipment I have spent well over £2,000 and I am determined to make it work! I will photograph all of my kit tomorrow so that you know exactly what I am working with... Thankyou all for reading

01-08-2012, 01:55	#2 (permalink)
treesmoker Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 9 Member: 1300568 Status: Offline Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Pictures as promised: Jovy RE-7500 Popcorned Chip Xbox 360 Support Jig Top Side Xbox 360 Support Jig Back Side TC Placement Jovy With Xbox Jig Mounted Last edited by treesmoker; 01-08-2012 at 02:02.

02-16-2012, 17:55	#13 (permalink)
yudi81 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12 Member: 1260631 Status: Offline Sonork: ddcmonx Thanks: 6 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	preheat till 180c to hot @ treesmokers i've been dealing with hundreds of xbox360 youre preheat temp was too high , 150c is enough. reflow process until 200c is enough for xbox execpt you gonna do reball. 235c will definitely kill the chip.. check this out : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze1cV_NRKcA

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
where to find a working program all they have some errors ??	fondas	Nokia Legacy Phones ( DCT-1 , DCT-2 , DCT-3 , DCT-L )	2	12-12-2012 12:26
How can I do a Welcome note for my 6110 a dosn't have any one ?	Viper	Nokia Legacy Phones ( DCT-1 , DCT-2 , DCT-3 , DCT-L )	7	07-18-2012 07:57
Sim card sleep mode problem with 6130	ratzfatz	Nokia Legacy Phones ( DCT-1 , DCT-2 , DCT-3 , DCT-L )	4	05-22-2012 11:13
Help with 6110	paulomt1	Nokia Legacy Phones ( DCT-1 , DCT-2 , DCT-3 , DCT-L )	3	05-25-2009 16:29
Netmonitor with FBus????	ratzfatz	Nokia Legacy Phones ( DCT-1 , DCT-2 , DCT-3 , DCT-L )	4	06-09-1999 17:04

01-10-2012, 20:52	#3 (permalink)
monitron Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Netherlands Posts: 31 Member: 1242964 Status: Offline Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	It seems that you provide too much heat for too long. What does popcorn / delaminate, the board or the GPU? How long does the complete process take? Did you check the temp. reading, is it correct? If all goes correct you must be able to push the BGA very carefully and it must move (will go in the right place by itself) at 217 deg. I always check manually because i don't trus the profiles and the temp reading. 235 is much too high. You only need to go above 220 when you do ps3. Also preheating the board to 180 deg is too high. For xbox i preheat to 145 deg. Then i swing over the UH that is on Reflow allready. Carefully watch the temp reading. It has to be about 2 deg/sec. If it is faster higher the upper heater and if it becomes lower you must switch to FR. Use enough flux and keep the GPU at max 220 deg for about 30 sec.

01-11-2012, 19:57	#5 (permalink)
monitron Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Netherlands Posts: 31 Member: 1242964 Status: Offline Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	You can (double) check the temp readings with a handheld IR temparature meter with laser pointer. They are not so accurate but still good enough for quickly check te reading of the jovy. Cost about 60$ If you can move the chip at 207deg then that is the temp where the solder gets liquid. I also use a dental tool for that. You can see that 207 is actually 215-217 degrees so your reading is about 8 degrees to low. That's why i always check manually by checking if the chip moves. If you go until 235 deg it is not so strange that your chip popcorns (235+7=242). I never use profile's I always control the Jovy by hand. Profile's must be fine tuned because your room temperature and the tolerance of your temp. probe is not the same as with the person who made the profile. Even the jig can make a difference. What i do for reflowing a xbox (i do never relow but always reball) 1. set the LH to preheat until it reaches 55-60deg 2. then switch the UH to reflow (leave it parked) and LH to fast reflow (only if you use a jig else set it to reflow!!) 3. when the board is about 150 deg swing over the UH (check with the IR meter) 4. now carefully watch the temp, it must climb max 2deg/sec. If it is faster set the UH 5mm higher. Lower, if it is lower, lower it 5mm. When i use a jig i set it just under 7 for xbox. When the temp is about 185deg switch the UH to fast reflow. 5. when the temp reaches 205 (check with the IR meter) you begin checking if the chip moves. As soon as it moves start a timer (a cheap one to cook eggs will do) that counts from 60 seconds to zero. 6. Switch off the UH when the temp reaches about 213 deg but leave it in place. The temp will go to 220 and then drops very slowly. You must figure out for your self when you exactly switch it off. As long as the temp never gets passed 220! 7. When the timer is at about 20 second the temp will be around 215 put the UH in park and switch both heaters to OFF. 8. when the temp is at about 195 deg switch on the fan. The timer must will be around 0 then 9. let the board cool until room temp. Clean off the exessive flux with IPA or flux cleaner and test the Xbox. some tips: don't cover the complete board with reflective tape. Leave about 1 cm from the chip blank. It will help to shorten the process. Especially with the PS3 you will hardly reach the 235 deg if you do that. The 7500 has to work hard to reflow a PS3 Turn the board 180 degrees because on you picture the UH will hit the usb connectors when swinging it over. When you succeed in doing this you can always make your own profile for this. But until that time my advise would be to contol the Jovy manual (not on the machine but with the software!!). Also read this post from Raheeeb: RE7500 fast process in 120 seconds It is pretty much the same as how i work. Good Luck!!

01-12-2012, 00:45	#7 (permalink)
treesmoker Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 9 Member: 1300568 Status: Offline Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	OKAY UPDATE: closer inspection after cleaning with IPA shows their is one very small spot on the right hand side of the chip which is probably a 3mm circle of delamination ("popcorned" effect) however I am sure this just means I need to switch off the heaters at 210c-211c rather than 213c and to not exceed 217c-218c on jovy software (217c+6c = 223c/224c) which should be safe. Complete reflow from 0c - 221c - 0c took close to 900 secs. is that normal?

01-12-2012, 18:40	#8 (permalink)
monitron Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Netherlands Posts: 31 Member: 1242964 Status: Offline Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	I think you still have to check the reading of your temp probe with a second temp meter. Also clean the temp probe now and then. It gets coverd with flux residu. Personally i never let the temp go above 220 for an xbox. It is up to you to get the right balance. I cannot help you with that because tolerance between machine, temp sensor and room temp make difference. That's why profile's cannot be trusted so easy. This isn't a job you can learn in one month. It took me almost a year to get things right.

01-12-2012, 19:22	#9 (permalink)
treesmoker Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 9 Member: 1300568 Status: Offline Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Hi Monitron, I completly understand what your saying regarding room temperature/tolerance that are never the same in two different environments/machines. I clean my TC regulary because as you have stated it gets caked in flux after each reflow. Last questions before I start my (slightly painful) journey to perfecting this machine: can you note any different varibles for PS3's or laptop motherboards (nVidia chip on HP laptops for example) i.e different temps for steps 1) - 9) and in your experience which is the better machine a Jovy RE-7500 or a ACHI IR PRO -SC because lots of people are using these machines with a much higher sucess rate, mainly due to larger preheater, accurate temps and more even heat? what are your comments?

01-15-2012, 19:29	#10 (permalink)
monitron Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Netherlands Posts: 31 Member: 1242964 Status: Offline Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Sorry but i cannot give you all that information for different boards. As long as you take time for pre-heat (ps3 and xbox at 145deg and notebooks 100 - 120 deg) and as long as you carefully watch on what temp the tin melts you can make your own profiles for different boards. It helps you to understand the process of reflow and reball better. I have no experience with the Achi but i can say that the RE-7500 is a very good and reliable machine. The lower heater is a bit small and that is a small problem when you do PS3. But overall i did almost 500 repairs with my RE-7500 and had no problems. Since one month i have a RE-8500 wich i am learning to work with.

01-20-2012, 09:46	#11 (permalink)
ian8115 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 14 Member: 413017 Status: Offline Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Monitron is bang on here. Every board is different, every machine is different. Also Room temp makes a big difference! Never trust your temp gauge, remember its only a guide. Always gently tap or move the GPU for movement to know you have successfully melted all balls. For example balls connected to big grounding plates will usually be the last to melt so that's often why boards behave differently, along with component location and board thickness. Also I agree that it took me over a year to get good at it. Now I reball everyday and cannot remember the last time one failed, it will come with time but its not an overnight money spinner...

01-29-2012, 18:15	#12 (permalink)
orwellcomputers Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2 Member: 1716357 Status: Offline Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So how are you getting on treesmoker?

02-17-2012, 05:59	#14 (permalink)
yudi81 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12 Member: 1260631 Status: Offline Sonork: ddcmonx Thanks: 6 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	@ treesmokers reflow process until 200c is enough for xbox execpt, a succesful process will make u earn money right (the prove of customer sattisfaction) if 200c cant solved the case then a reball is needed. even for desoldering lead free gpu xbox i have never exceed 225c.. there are some tricks to avoid popcorning on xbox gpu chip.. please dont use those jig , use the original jovy supporter , it will absorb the heat much faster. ( from 150c to liquidous in 2mnt) thnx

02-18-2012, 16:04	#15 (permalink)
Dan Collins Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 207 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks: 6 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts	It’s all about maintaining proper temps to prevent overheating while achieving a liquid state. Make sure the TC's are reading correctly. You also prob have the upper heater too low, and frankly you have to have it low to get the big BGA's to heat up. Which is where the problem lies. Adjusting the position of the upper heater, try to achieve a 2-4C per sec ramp rate. The real issue is the BGAs on the XBOX are really too large for the RE7500 heaters to do a proper job. I have found the RE7500 to be excellent on any BGA 30mm or less. I have purchased an RE8500 for the larger chips. I have a 99% repair rate using this practice.