New rework station with complete process analysis RE8500 from JOVY - Page 3 - GSM-Forum

**Dan Collins** · 03-15-2012, 00:28

ian8155 - Jovy, being in China, is very hard to understand, but they do reply. Just not very helpful due to the language barrier. I ask them many questions and get back weird responses that make little sense.

monitron · 03-17-2012, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Collins

Well, haven't worked a lot with the RE8500 yet. Have a lot more testing to do. The only real complaint I have is with the upper heater movement. It is cumbersome to say the least. They should have stuck with the RE7500 upper heater movement mechanism. I am actually contacting Jovy to see if they can replace it for me. The support beam diameter and length are actually the same on both models. Also, there is no markings to tell you the height of the upper heater. They refer to level 4 and 5 in the Jovy videos but I don't know where that is. They should have improved the upper heater movement not make it worse.
Had issues with the software and drivers at first, but I sorted that out and they just released some new firmware and software for the RE8500. The update went ok, but you have to uninstall the previous version first or it wont work.
Also, the lower TC has to be attached to the board with tape, so I switched to 3M 363 high temp reflective tape. works great. Holds up to 300C very well. We all know that the cheap stuff will fall right off the board when it gets hot. The 363 stays in place and is reusable.
That's it 4 now. Lets hear some more. This RE8500 has some potential. Just need to work out some bugs.

Hi Dan,

I have the same opinion as you about the upper heater movement. You always need two hands to move it. Cannot think of a reason why they did this.

There is a scale for the upper heater height. It is on the left side of the vertical tube, but very very difficult to see.

Thanks for the tip about the 3M tape. I think they should use other sensors with thinner wires between the thermocouple and the plug. Where do you but that tape? It is very expensive so i am not willing to buy a whole box.

The software is a problem to me because i was very used to the RE7500 software for manual control. I never used profiles. I hope they make that a bit easyer.

I keep falling back to my RE7500 and that is not the way it should be when you invest that amount of money.

**Dan Collins** · 03-21-2012, 15:44

Monitron,
We are in the same boat. I still fall back to the RE7500 when I get a customers board to do. Not confident at all with the RE8500.
I purchased better TC's from Omega with .020 gauge wire.
I bought the tape from the bay for $35 a roll. Well worth the money. You can reuse the tape, so it goes far. Buy one roll and try it out.

As far as the upper heater movement. Jovy is sending me new grease they say will help with the movement. Don't see how that will affect the two handed swing though. Real poor design. The RE7500 is better.

They released new software, but I cannot tell any difference. Maybe some bug fixes. Still can't figure out why some profiles have graphs, others show settings. If they offered a class on this unit, I would take it.

I now see the upper heater scale. Really hard to see. My guess is to use the same distance as with the RE7500 for the upper heater. If you put it all the way down, you fry the board real quick. Their videos use settings 4 and 5. They don't show what upper setting to use for their supplied profiles. Should have a upper heater label in the profile software.

monitron · 03-21-2012, 18:23

Hi Dan,

Can you send me a PM with the link to the eb seller? Cannot find it.

I was thinking that maybe it is possible to move the ring that is on de bottom of the vertical tube just to the point where the upper-heater should be for a nice 2deg/sec. In that way you can leave the fastener unlocked and swing the upper-heater back with one hand.

Haven't tried it but maybe it is possibe. But better Jovy sends us a new tube and holder for the UH with the system of the RE7500.

Also hoping for new software that is more user friendly and has a manual control like the 7500 has.

**Dan Collins** · 03-30-2012, 15:38

I use the USA Jovy distributor. Speak to Kevin. I got the grease in, looks like white lithium or coldcreem. Haven't used it yet.

Prob is, once the upper heater goes down you cannot swing it. Have to lift it. I bought another ring to let the arm drop to position 4. (Not sure yet about pos 4, will play with that).

I took measurements and the shaft is the same size as the RE7500, so not sure why they didn't just put the same swing assembly on the RE8500. I have lodged my complaint with Jovy on that.

I wish it had manual usage similar to the RE7500 but with the extra TC monitoring. That would have been nice.

Still not really using the RE8500 for production. Too intimidating. Have to jump in I guess.

GONDOLF · 04-10-2012, 18:32

dan any more progress on the re8500

have u sussed it out yet

**Dan Collins** · 04-23-2012, 17:52

No, still using the RE7500 for all my production work. Not comfortable with the RE8500, but it took me a year working with the RE7500 before I felt good with it. The RE8500 looks pretty just sitting there. lol. Its really all a matter of finding the time and desire. Also, Jovy is no help. Had a bunch of questions about the RE8500 and they just brushed me off.

mobilephonereba · 05-17-2012, 09:59

Looks RE-8500 preheater and top heater more bigger ,re-7500 is too small preheater

lader · 05-22-2012, 17:55

)))IAN 8155
Jovy, being in China, is very hard to understand, but they do reply. Just not very helpful due to the language barrier. I ask them many questions and get back weird responses that make little sense.

**Dan Collins** · 05-24-2012, 18:41

Yes, just wish I could figure out how they are controlling the heaters. In standard mode you need the top and bottom TC's, so is it maintaining temps for you? The graph seems to somewhat try to run the profile. This machine may actually be idiot proof, yeah I wish. On one practice run the componets started dropping off the bottom of the board. Never had that issue with the RE7500.
So my main question, which Jovy hasn't answered, is do you start the profile with the upper heater lowered? Seems that is how it works since there is no prompt to move the heater like with the RE7500. Then the follow up question is do you leave the upper heater in place until the profile finishes?
If the RE8500 just runs an entire profile while you just mount the board and lower the upper heater, that would make it sort of an automatic process for a simple reflow. But then that doesn't take into account when you have to remove a BGA. What do you do then? set the alarm to the liquidus temp them get the upper heater out of the way then pull the chip and then what? Cancel the profile and turn the fan on?

See my point on so many unknowns!

aqibi2000 · 06-03-2012, 13:11

can somebody please post their rework profile for laptop GPU's using their Jovy 8500. I'm having a lot of trouble with mine. (USB mode doesn't work as it is faulty)

Thank you

**Dan Collins** · 06-14-2012, 18:12

Just finished another successful reflow with the RE8500. Just using the stock Fast lead free profile. I like this machine the more I use it. You can really keep track of the temps all around the BGA and adjust the upper to match the lower temps by moving the upper heater up and down during the process. The key is to get the TC's to match up in the graph. I use 2 upper TC's and one lower as TC2. On a huge BGA I would use 4 on the top
Here is what I used, any thoughts would be helpful.
Preheat - 130
Soak - 180
Peak 225
Peak time - 20
Alarm - 217

One other thought. Find a way to hold the TC's very securely to the board or the reflow will fail. I built my own board supports and use them to hold the lower TC. Jovy also sells a support JV-LSU8. I have that one as well. More support the better, I say.

asliyucegsm · 06-22-2012, 07:56

thank you friends good

**Dan Collins** · 06-22-2012, 16:23

More RE8500 info,
During the preheat stage the upper heater is suppling little heat so you do not want to match the temps during this phase. It is only during the last phase you want them to match and I think the control does that automatically. Just keep the upper heater at position 3 and you should be good to go. I have installed an extra collet on the upper heater shaft that allows me to keep the postion where I want it when I drop the heater down.

One more point, all my testing is on laptop motherboards, other type boards would be entirely different settings and positions.

**Dan Collins** · 07-10-2012, 02:03

Good luck with a complaint against a Chinese company. Most you can do is flood the market with bad comments so others won't buy.

I know my dealings with my distributor has been good. Dealings with Jovy directly is frustrating. The serial number is connected to the distributor and that is weird but not a problem if you purchase from an authorized distributor.

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03-15-2012, 00:28	#31 (permalink)
Dan Collins Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 207 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks: 7 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts	ian8155 - Jovy, being in China, is very hard to understand, but they do reply. Just not very helpful due to the language barrier. I ask them many questions and get back weird responses that make little sense.

03-21-2012, 15:44	#33 (permalink)
Dan Collins Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 207 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks: 7 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts	Monitron, We are in the same boat. I still fall back to the RE7500 when I get a customers board to do. Not confident at all with the RE8500. I purchased better TC's from Omega with .020 gauge wire. I bought the tape from the bay for $35 a roll. Well worth the money. You can reuse the tape, so it goes far. Buy one roll and try it out. As far as the upper heater movement. Jovy is sending me new grease they say will help with the movement. Don't see how that will affect the two handed swing though. Real poor design. The RE7500 is better. They released new software, but I cannot tell any difference. Maybe some bug fixes. Still can't figure out why some profiles have graphs, others show settings. If they offered a class on this unit, I would take it. I now see the upper heater scale. Really hard to see. My guess is to use the same distance as with the RE7500 for the upper heater. If you put it all the way down, you fry the board real quick. Their videos use settings 4 and 5. They don't show what upper setting to use for their supplied profiles. Should have a upper heater label in the profile software.

03-21-2012, 18:23	#34 (permalink)
monitron Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Netherlands Posts: 31 Member: 1242964 Status: Offline Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Hi Dan, Can you send me a PM with the link to the eb seller? Cannot find it. I was thinking that maybe it is possible to move the ring that is on de bottom of the vertical tube just to the point where the upper-heater should be for a nice 2deg/sec. In that way you can leave the fastener unlocked and swing the upper-heater back with one hand. Haven't tried it but maybe it is possibe. But better Jovy sends us a new tube and holder for the UH with the system of the RE7500. Also hoping for new software that is more user friendly and has a manual control like the 7500 has.

03-30-2012, 15:38	#35 (permalink)
Dan Collins Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 207 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks: 7 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts	I use the USA Jovy distributor. Speak to Kevin. I got the grease in, looks like white lithium or coldcreem. Haven't used it yet. Prob is, once the upper heater goes down you cannot swing it. Have to lift it. I bought another ring to let the arm drop to position 4. (Not sure yet about pos 4, will play with that). I took measurements and the shaft is the same size as the RE7500, so not sure why they didn't just put the same swing assembly on the RE8500. I have lodged my complaint with Jovy on that. I wish it had manual usage similar to the RE7500 but with the extra TC monitoring. That would have been nice. Still not really using the RE8500 for production. Too intimidating. Have to jump in I guess.

04-10-2012, 18:32	#36 (permalink)
GONDOLF No Life Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Age: 38 Posts: 579 Member: 40820 Status: Offline Thanks: 15 Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts	dan any more progress on the re8500 have u sussed it out yet

04-23-2012, 17:52	#37 (permalink)
Dan Collins Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 207 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks: 7 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts	No, still using the RE7500 for all my production work. Not comfortable with the RE8500, but it took me a year working with the RE7500 before I felt good with it. The RE8500 looks pretty just sitting there. lol. Its really all a matter of finding the time and desire. Also, Jovy is no help. Had a bunch of questions about the RE8500 and they just brushed me off.

05-17-2012, 09:59	#38 (permalink)
mobilephonereba Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5 Member: 1760513 Status: Offline Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Looks RE-8500 preheater and top heater more bigger ,re-7500 is too small preheater

05-22-2012, 17:55	#39 (permalink)
lader No Life Poster Join Date: Dec 2004 Age: 39 Posts: 1,061 Member: 95476 Status: Offline Thanks: 129 Thanked 154 Times in 96 Posts	)))IAN 8155 Jovy, being in China, is very hard to understand, but they do reply. Just not very helpful due to the language barrier. I ask them many questions and get back weird responses that make little sense.

05-24-2012, 18:41	#40 (permalink)
Dan Collins Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 207 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks: 7 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts	Yes, just wish I could figure out how they are controlling the heaters. In standard mode you need the top and bottom TC's, so is it maintaining temps for you? The graph seems to somewhat try to run the profile. This machine may actually be idiot proof, yeah I wish. On one practice run the componets started dropping off the bottom of the board. Never had that issue with the RE7500. So my main question, which Jovy hasn't answered, is do you start the profile with the upper heater lowered? Seems that is how it works since there is no prompt to move the heater like with the RE7500. Then the follow up question is do you leave the upper heater in place until the profile finishes? If the RE8500 just runs an entire profile while you just mount the board and lower the upper heater, that would make it sort of an automatic process for a simple reflow. But then that doesn't take into account when you have to remove a BGA. What do you do then? set the alarm to the liquidus temp them get the upper heater out of the way then pull the chip and then what? Cancel the profile and turn the fan on? See my point on so many unknowns!

06-03-2012, 13:11	#41 (permalink)
aqibi2000 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1 Member: 1622357 Status: Offline Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	can somebody please post their rework profile for laptop GPU's using their Jovy 8500. I'm having a lot of trouble with mine. (USB mode doesn't work as it is faulty) Thank you

06-14-2012, 18:12	#42 (permalink)
Dan Collins Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 207 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks: 7 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts	Just finished another successful reflow with the RE8500. Just using the stock Fast lead free profile. I like this machine the more I use it. You can really keep track of the temps all around the BGA and adjust the upper to match the lower temps by moving the upper heater up and down during the process. The key is to get the TC's to match up in the graph. I use 2 upper TC's and one lower as TC2. On a huge BGA I would use 4 on the top Here is what I used, any thoughts would be helpful. Preheat - 130 Soak - 180 Peak 225 Peak time - 20 Alarm - 217 One other thought. Find a way to hold the TC's very securely to the board or the reflow will fail. I built my own board supports and use them to hold the lower TC. Jovy also sells a support JV-LSU8. I have that one as well. More support the better, I say.

06-22-2012, 07:56	#43 (permalink)
asliyucegsm Freak Poster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ankara, TURKEY Age: 47 Posts: 279 Member: 97854 Status: Offline Thanks: 114 Thanked 115 Times in 40 Posts	thank you friends good

06-22-2012, 16:23	#44 (permalink)
Dan Collins Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 207 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks: 7 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts	More RE8500 info, During the preheat stage the upper heater is suppling little heat so you do not want to match the temps during this phase. It is only during the last phase you want them to match and I think the control does that automatically. Just keep the upper heater at position 3 and you should be good to go. I have installed an extra collet on the upper heater shaft that allows me to keep the postion where I want it when I drop the heater down. One more point, all my testing is on laptop motherboards, other type boards would be entirely different settings and positions.

07-10-2012, 02:03	#45 (permalink)
Dan Collins Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 207 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks: 7 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts	Good luck with a complaint against a Chinese company. Most you can do is flood the market with bad comments so others won't buy. I know my dealings with my distributor has been good. Dealings with Jovy directly is frustrating. The serial number is connected to the distributor and that is weird but not a problem if you purchase from an authorized distributor.