[Archive] TomTom v9 Firmware and Maps

[bihurkatu]

Originally Posted by omolino

...

i try to do 8545 new DSA nav and it says "there is no map"
...

Sure that the map is to NavCore 8?

[Anto002]

Originally Posted by omolino

is the NEW DSA working with Nav 8 ???

i try to do 8545 new DSA nav and it says "there is no map"
i try to do 9450 and 9430 and they work with any problem...

i did a clear flash and try again with 8545 and don't work again. I think is NOT working in v8

have a ONE v1 with MB+HS

DSA works perfectly in Nav_8

[omolino]

Ummm...
i have a mess with the maps, maybe is true, i going to try again !!!

Thanks to both !!!

[omolino]

it was my mi fault again. SORRY !!!

DSA works perfect with Nav8

-----------------------------
in the begining... with DSA before 1/10/2010
I did a DSA with 8545 then i read something in ipmart and change this because this are diferent en Dark Mirelle software:

Add(h) ...... DSA ............... DM
04BD88 .. 00 00 89 E5 ..... 05 00 50 E3
28F438 .. 00 ................... 01
32F0C8 .. 01 ................... 02
620214 .. FF FF FF FF ...... 27 00 00 00
6241C8 .. FF FF FF FF ...... 23 00 00 00

Then the nav change and i saw a 3bar panels in skin ONEIQ

Then you change DSA and the trick doesn't work any more....

but NOW i try again and IT WORKS !!!!

I HAVE A nav 8 with 3 bar and the new swap !!

Thanks AGAIN !!!!

------------------------------------

If you want to have a look:
Zippyshare.com - 8545 Refurbished.rar
it have 2 PDNavigator ( rename PDNavigator2 to PDNavigator to have 2 bar (original)) (rename PDNavigator3 to PDNavigator to have 3 bar (mixed))

Thanks !!!

[Downunder35m]

So finally I found some time to play with a ONE V3.
First for the user feedback I collected:
With the new DSA and swappiness set to 60 it works fine on ONE, ONE V3 and some XL models.
The ONE V2 tends to stay silent in all other emus than self and once changed it stays silent in self as well (not personally experienced on a the ONE V3 I have for testing).
Some XL models and the ONE V2 did not show the skin changer in most tests.
Initial unresponsivness goes aways once the swap is created succesfully and the devices work with 7to0 mb of free Ram while using TTS.

Personal experience:
I had a ONE V3 for my tests that needed updating anyway.
First test with the older DSA version caused more or less constant freezing either right at the start or once the route was calculated/recalculated.
Played around with a few things as mentioned in the thread here but could not get the right "feeling" and could not stop the freezing/rebooting.

With the current DSA it still freezes and reboots at some stages but with swappiness set to 60 it works just fine in my tests.
When I keep a close eye on the memory I notice that the free Ram varies between 6.5 and at best 12mb.
Without going into the guts and doing full diagnostics I would say swapping works as it should with the 60 setting.
Going up or down does not really change much apart from the fact that at about 75 the freezing and rebooting starts again.
I only used self and 36 for the emulation tests as 36 gives the 3 pane status bar.
Initial response at first start or after a cold boot/reset is still slow but acceptable if you are not always in a hurry as soon as you start your car
I noticed some trouble with the TTS engine:
If at first start a computervoice is seleted in the ttgo.bif the device tends to stay silent, only a reskin with 36 at first start will help - or deleting the voice setting in the ttgo.bif.
On many trials I also noted that it takes quite a long time to get the first output from a computer voice.
It seems that either parts of the current memory are swapped out or being read from the swapfile.
The HS box was never checked by the way.
In all tests I was able to get TTS working after changing the emu to 36 but other users reported that they can't get TTS working at all - confusing part is that it works fine on similar devices.

Things in general for 32mb models:
In all my tests I had massive problems with the emulations for the GO range.
Self, Rider, Start and XL Live however work fine with the known limitations of the models when it comes to the menu.
Although I only used the 9.450 for my last tests IMHO it makes sense to do some research before selecting a Navcore for a limited device.
Things that are not officially included in a NC need no swapping and can save on free Ram as well as increasing performance.
So you should consider the map and your needs before you do a new setup.
Since most users want to get most out of the maps these days you need a high V9 NC for some of the new maps until all meta codes for the simle maps are available.

Thing I'd like to ask or suggest:
Is it possible to keep the TTS parts in the ram instead of swapping them if a user want to use TTS?
Is it possible to disable/turn off hardware features that can't be used like FM, ASR?

From user feedback I noticed that most of them want a NC that gives them access to the latest full featured maps and to have a modern menu with a 3 pane status bar.
My tests showed that this often only works in a single emulation on most of the 32mb models and the cheaper low end models.
Since it seems there is no way known to modify he data.chk files for a real custom menu and a tomtom.mnu is not able to give access to all you need I was wondering if there is way around it?
My understanding of Linux and hacking into a NC are too limited and it might sound like a noob but:
1. Is it possible to lock the emulation to let's say 36 but force a X50 menu style?
2. I'm still searching for a way to get a late V9 NC with a simple menu, 3 pane status bar and full support for the latest full featured maps.
With simple menu I mean a menu that is optimised for the limited hardware (does not show impossible things).
A change between the menu styles of the emulations should be possible too meaning the menu stays the same (layout) and only the icons change.
AFAIK the data.chk (and maybe some of the other .chk files) includes the menu and general look of the screen.
My questions here:
Is there any way to modify the data.chk or to analyse how it works?
Was anyone able to create a tomtom.mnu that gives access to the "unknown" icons like safety cams, and some of the other settings?
I searched the net for a complete listing of .mnu settings/icons but only ended up with confusing info as some of them are in french, spanish or who knows what.
How can I "extract" the list of tasks for a menu from a NC and how to find the missing ones?

As said before my goal is a fully optimised menu that offers acces to all that we need in all emualtions (if possible always in the same layout) but without not needed/not working features.
Any help and info is welcome!

[omolino]

Test Results
=========

i tested 8545 in One V1 (same hardware than x00) the bad results are that the power off botton don't work

else is, than voices TTs don't work in HS mode but work fine out of this mode

the good news is about 9-12 Ram free, extremly light and no problems or freezings during the test

is the most light navcore that ever i tested !!!!


Now i going to do more test in other One V6 and i will post the results.

Thanks

[dsa8310]

For testing purposes, it would be good to mark the end of MB (return from swappiness 100 to default 60) by writing a file on permanent storage - especially useful for devices without BT & Console.
It would be a confirmation that the ttn RSS inferior limit of 22MB is reached on devices with 32MB of RAM (I set this value based on tests with my own 64MB RAM device).

Simply insert a line in file skins/skins.sh like this:

###memory_boost
if [ -s /mnt/sdcard/swap ]; then
  mkswap -c -v1 /mnt/sdcard/swap
  swapon /mnt/sdcard/swap
{
  sleep 90
  echo 100 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness
  while true; do
    sleep 30
    rss=`ps | grep ttn | grep -v grep | head -1 | awk '{print $3}'`
    rss=$((rss / 1024))
    if [ $rss -lt 23 ]; then break; fi
  done
  echo 60 >/proc/sys/vm/swappiness
  touch /mnt/sdcard/mb-done
}&
fi

Let the device run for a while (use it effectively), then connect it to PC and see whether a file called mb-done has been created in the root of storage.
If it's not there, then the 22MB limit is too high for 32MB devices - or more time is needed for MB to end.

(note that file skins.sh is a Unix text file, so use an appropriate editor under Windows)

...
Now, I recon that dsa is done, more or less; anyway checkbox HS stays. Thanks for feedback and suggestions.

[dsa8310]

Originally Posted by omolino

Test Results
=========

i tested 8545 in One V1 (same hardware than x00) the bad results are that the power off botton don't work
...

Copy (with overwrite) file dsa.app/Contents/Resources/Java/tomtom/zImage.mbs.v89 to dsa.app/Contents/Resources/Java/tomtom/zImage.mbs.v8 before installing dsa.
Then reinstall dsa from the altered folder. Then patch again nc v8.545.

In other words give kernel zImage.mbs.v89 to nc v8.545 (instead of zImage.mbs.v8) (and actually to all v8 ncs of version less than 8.560) by overwriting contents and keeping naming scheme.

If it is still not working, then it means that a true v9 kernel is needed.

I have empirically established that v9.000 and up needs a v9 kernel, less than v8.560 needs a v8 kernel, and the rest needs a transitional v89 kernel. We do have kernels for v8 and v89, but no v9 kernel (with swapping). The v8.560 value could be wrong, or ncs like your v8.545 could belong to a different interval, so try v89 too.

(In the end, reinstall dsa from a clean package)
(to make your findings permanent, you'd have to edit file .../Java/dsa-cabpatch)

[ahkp3]

Originally Posted by dsa8310

Now, I recon that dsa is done, more or less; anyway checkbox HS stays. Thanks for feedback and suggestions.

Not so fast.... I am not sure, if we are done yet, or are we? And after running several more tests I concur that checkbox HS needs to stay!

I have a HUGE feedback on DSA Navcore 8.x and 9.x coming up regarding latest DSA regarding SD-Card speed, battery life, framerate improvement, brightness and other differences between Navcore 8 and 9 and much more this weekend! I am indeed still running tests and it will probably take me until Sunday. I will also comment on Downunders report at that point (thank you very much for this detailed feedback!).

I am facing one question that has indeed bothered me for a very long time now, do you happen to have an answer for that or the tools to investigate this further?

Most files of the map and even the main TTS file of every voice are way too big to fit into RAM, even considering devices with 64MB RAM. They simply cannot be cached completely by Linux, or can they? So TTN probably accesses those files blockwise or clustersize-wise? Do you have any details on this access process? Block size read, cluster size, maybe even the size of a small cache being used?

Another part of this question deals with how TTN knows exactly where to look in those files? Is it possible to introduce some sort of permanent caching of this "index" for those files, if it is not too large?

I hope you can follow my thoughts,

ahkp3

[dsa8310]

The so called v89 kernel with swap enabled has been compiled out of a 348526 TT kernel. I assumed without checking things out that it should correspond to kernels used in ncs of version greater or equal to v8.560 (but less than v9.000).

The OS version is displayed in the status screen, so installing a clean v8.545 (or any) nc (no MB and no K50) would tell the real kernel version.

Kernel v89 is used for v9.000 and up ncs too (under name zImage.mbs.v9, as placeholder).
348526 is also the latest available kernel in source.
301792 is the source for the v8 MB kernel.
v9 kernels have much higher kernel numbers, and are not published by TT.

[dsa8310]

How NCs work is TT's business, so inquiries should be addressed to them.
I'd be happy with a proper swap enabled kernel for each group of NCs under consideration.
And yes, I do not follow posts exceedingly long or dense...

[omolino]

and it WORKS !!!
You´re right and I have NOW a power off botton working with the v89 kernel.

I choose 8545 because is the unique that i can change 2bar view for 3 bar view (like nav9 ) in OneIQ skin editing with an hex editor.

Thanks again.

[ahkp3]

Originally Posted by dsa8310

How NCs work is TT's business, so inquiries should be addressed to them. I'd be happy with a proper swap enabled kernel for each group of NCs under consideration. And yes, I do not follow posts exceedingly long or dense...

Acknowledged, thank you one last time for all your effort with DSA. Unless TomTom publishes details about Navcore 9 kernels, I am out of here and won't fill up this thread.

Kind regards,

ahkp3

[omolino]

This problem with power off, it exist with truck navcores in x50 devices...
maybe its a about kernel....

sorry you open a door

and whats happens if will do a V9 nav with V89 kernel ? maybe problems i guess
what is the file that shows navigation bar ?
can i change this file form Nav8 from Nav9 ?

ohhhh sorry i to much questións....
forget about it, Thanks

[dsa8310]

Adding another kernel drop down menu instead of K50 and MB is certainly possible. To lessen the confusion, tooltips would be required I think.
Then again, extensively testing all NCs for kernel compatibility would make it unnecessary.
I don't plan for changes now.