Clone detection - GSM-Forum

hakthu · 02-19-2003, 10:57

Hallo!

I have been using my clone (simemu5s very nice soft) for some days and now i'm a little bit spooked because i read about someone who got his clone detected by his phone company, is there anyone who has heard anything about such clone detection, especially in Sweden. I like my phone company but not my card, to little memory. And i don't want to lose my contract or get a lawsuit.

jsec2 · 02-19-2003, 11:04

I think that is impossible detect clone. Card use KI and IMSI. This value you have same in clone card and in original card.
If you will not tell to anybody about your clone card, you cannot be afraid.

jsec

nab · 02-19-2003, 11:30

yes wou can get caught if you use both AT THE SAME Time

hakthu · 02-19-2003, 11:47

Well, the original cards are safely tucked away in my desktop drawer, but what about the CCID and TMSI?

SirGraham · 02-19-2003, 12:08

Hi all,

I agree with nab, the problem is you use the both AT THE SAME Time...

The IDCC don´sent to the BTS. I check this conect the phone to season... This nuember only is for administrative use (distribuitors, SAT, ect)...

The TMSI is temporal and It´s number is dependient of the Data/Time. When you use a clone number you generate a TMSI like the original because the data of the SIM (IMSI & KI) is the same of original.

Best Regards,
Sir Graham.

hakthu · 02-19-2003, 12:40

Thank you for your answers so far.

Now another question.

Lets say i use the clone, switch off, an then connect with the original will this trigger any alarm at the phone company?

Sorry for asking so many questions.

SirGraham · 02-19-2003, 15:04

Hi hakthu,

This a good question.

If you swith off the phone and Swicht on again... normaly the TMSI is the same... and the same Kc.

When you makes the first call this change....

I think that they don´t control this and I suppose (in this moment) they don´t control this...

Best Regards,
Sir Graham.

fofodaman · 02-19-2003, 15:58

the only way they can detect a clone is from the IMEI # of the phone used.

Change both IMEIs of the phones to one standard number, & you should be fine.

if you use a DCT4 nokia & a DCT3, change the DCT3 to the DCT4 IMEI.
Most of the other phones can be changed to match any number you want, just post a msg in the section of your phone & ask how to change the IMEI.

regards.

SirGraham · 02-19-2003, 16:14

hi fofodaman,

Quote:

the only way they can detect a clone is from the IMEI # of the phone used.

Ok. It´s possible, but It´s legal. ....

You can use a SIM in two phones. He can detects this but .... if is this original works firts in one phone and after in other...

Quote:

if you use a DCT4 nokia & a DCT3, change the DCT3 to the DCT4 IMEI.

uhmmm. Can explain more about it. You can change the "real" IMEI of 6210 (for example).
I know that nokia have 3 IMEI diferent One in the Eprom (only for the show in the screen *#06#), other in the Flash and other encript (this send to the operator).

What do you know about this?

Best Regards,
Sir graham.
PD: Thanks for the data of you "special" SIM. I read this email an send my answer....

fofodaman · 02-20-2003, 02:59

i used the word can not be detected, & i was wrong.
Sure it can be, if the 2 phones using the same IMEI & the same sim, log onto the network at the same time, it will take someone who is really "WATCHING" that particular SIM to realize that the serving cell is not the same, but if the IMEI of the phone is the same, it will be related by the network administrators to data link delays or else they would have to open up the cells map & trace that

i know some network operators & the last thing on their heads is tracing a cloned sim, especially when they can not proove any wrong doing on the customer's end, if all of the above take place, & they know with no doubt that you are using a cloned sim, they still have no hard evidence, so they will make a call & tell you that "IF" you are using such a "thing" please stop OR "else".
Now on the other end, everyone knows that both phones can not send OR receive at the same time, UNLESS, & this did happen with me, a data link is delayed between the 2 different serving cells, i once was on a call from my carphone, & something happened that made me receive another call on my hand held,, ofcourse both phones have the same IMEI & are using the same sim (cloned) one is NOKIA & the other is a MOTOROLA, you can imagine the look in my eyes when my handheld rang, but after some thought, i realize it is an odd situation & i guess my handheld was logged into a different cell than my carphone & some delay took place.

So, back to the beggining, it can be detected, But can not be proved

is that good enough ? just remember the basics :

"CLONED SIM!!!! what is that!!"
"if your computer is telling you so, i suggest you get a new one"
"i bet it is this darned phone i am using, will you replace it with a new one for free?"

OR, come up with your own, have fun.
& good luck.

SirGraham · 02-20-2003, 10:02

Hi all,

I think ( my opinion) that the operators don´t control this.....

At the end... you make more calls with the clone system and always the operators earn money.... from one user ... other...

They don´t need control this. For they is better if there is more cards (cloned or not).

Best regards,
Sir Graham.

02-19-2003, 10:57	#1 (permalink)
hakthu Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 23 Member: 22318 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 0	Clone detection Hallo! I have been using my clone (simemu5s very nice soft) for some days and now i'm a little bit spooked because i read about someone who got his clone detected by his phone company, is there anyone who has heard anything about such clone detection, especially in Sweden. I like my phone company but not my card, to little memory. And i don't want to lose my contract or get a lawsuit.

02-19-2003, 11:47	#4 (permalink)
hakthu Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 23 Member: 22318 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 0	Clone use Well, the original cards are safely tucked away in my desktop drawer, but what about the CCID and TMSI?

02-19-2003, 12:40	#6 (permalink)
hakthu Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 23 Member: 22318 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 0	Clone / Original Thank you for your answers so far. Now another question. Lets say i use the clone, switch off, an then connect with the original will this trigger any alarm at the phone company? Sorry for asking so many questions.

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02-19-2003, 11:04	#2 (permalink)
jsec2 Freak Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 106 Member: 5575 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 3	I think that is impossible detect clone. Card use KI and IMSI. This value you have same in clone card and in original card. If you will not tell to anybody about your clone card, you cannot be afraid. jsec

02-19-2003, 11:30	#3 (permalink)
nab No Life Poster Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: UK and PAKISTAN Posts: 643 Member: 4315 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 1	yes wou can get caught if you use both AT THE SAME Time

02-19-2003, 12:08	#5 (permalink)
SirGraham No Life Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 628 Member: 15073 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 12	Hi all, I agree with nab, the problem is you use the both AT THE SAME Time... The IDCC don´sent to the BTS. I check this conect the phone to season... This nuember only is for administrative use (distribuitors, SAT, ect)... The TMSI is temporal and It´s number is dependient of the Data/Time. When you use a clone number you generate a TMSI like the original because the data of the SIM (IMSI & KI) is the same of original. Best Regards, Sir Graham.

02-19-2003, 15:04	#7 (permalink)
SirGraham No Life Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 628 Member: 15073 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 12	Hi hakthu, This a good question. If you swith off the phone and Swicht on again... normaly the TMSI is the same... and the same Kc. When you makes the first call this change.... I think that they don´t control this and I suppose (in this moment) they don´t control this... Best Regards, Sir Graham.

02-19-2003, 15:58	#8 (permalink)
fofodaman Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Leon Posts: 461 Member: 8804 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 4	the only way they can detect a clone is from the IMEI # of the phone used. Change both IMEIs of the phones to one standard number, & you should be fine. if you use a DCT4 nokia & a DCT3, change the DCT3 to the DCT4 IMEI. Most of the other phones can be changed to match any number you want, just post a msg in the section of your phone & ask how to change the IMEI. regards.

02-20-2003, 02:59	#10 (permalink)
fofodaman Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Leon Posts: 461 Member: 8804 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 4	i used the word can not be detected, & i was wrong. Sure it can be, if the 2 phones using the same IMEI & the same sim, log onto the network at the same time, it will take someone who is really "WATCHING" that particular SIM to realize that the serving cell is not the same, but if the IMEI of the phone is the same, it will be related by the network administrators to data link delays or else they would have to open up the cells map & trace that i know some network operators & the last thing on their heads is tracing a cloned sim, especially when they can not proove any wrong doing on the customer's end, if all of the above take place, & they know with no doubt that you are using a cloned sim, they still have no hard evidence, so they will make a call & tell you that "IF" you are using such a "thing" please stop OR "else". Now on the other end, everyone knows that both phones can not send OR receive at the same time, UNLESS, & this did happen with me, a data link is delayed between the 2 different serving cells, i once was on a call from my carphone, & something happened that made me receive another call on my hand held,, ofcourse both phones have the same IMEI & are using the same sim (cloned) one is NOKIA & the other is a MOTOROLA, you can imagine the look in my eyes when my handheld rang, but after some thought, i realize it is an odd situation & i guess my handheld was logged into a different cell than my carphone & some delay took place. So, back to the beggining, it can be detected, But can not be proved is that good enough ? just remember the basics : "CLONED SIM!!!! what is that!!" "if your computer is telling you so, i suggest you get a new one" "i bet it is this darned phone i am using, will you replace it with a new one for free?" OR, come up with your own, have fun. & good luck.

02-20-2003, 10:02	#11 (permalink)
SirGraham No Life Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 628 Member: 15073 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 12	Hi all, I think ( my opinion) that the operators don´t control this..... At the end... you make more calls with the clone system and always the operators earn money.... from one user ... other... They don´t need control this. For they is better if there is more cards (cloned or not). Best regards, Sir Graham.