Help with comp128 v1 & v2 sim details - GSM-Forum

h1gh · 08-29-2006, 01:14

Hello. I have read the forums and found alot of useful information, but have a quesiton I haven't located an answer to.

Last year I bought a supersim 16in1 for my tmobile (usa) gsm phones, and it worked perfectly.

I bought the supersim so I could have one phone as a backup, just in case my main phone was lost, stolen, or other emergency.

This year we signed up for a new tmobile plan to get free phones, so we got new sim cards and I fried the new sim card trying to clone it, obviously the new sim was a comp128 v2.

My question is this. If I get a sim card that looks like my original sim that was clones successfully, does that mean it is a comp128 v1 sim card and will work, or in other words, is the difference between comp128 v1 and v2 the actual sim card itself, or is it the code that is programmed onto the sim card?

Thank you in advance for any help.

sbog · 08-29-2006, 10:48

v1 or v2 are related to the code, namely - to the version of A38 algorithm.
But manufactures of sim-card limit the number of possible runs of the algo. Beyond that limit you feel the smell of something burnt (joke - sim-card simply becomes blocked).
Normally you don't reach the limit in the case of v1 and smart Ki-extracting software, but when dealing with v2 - reach for sure since v1-oriented software fails to obtain Ki.
If it is not clear from the forum and other sources - such a software performes multiple runs of A38 and analyse the card responses. Thousands times. Typical A38 limit is about 60'000.

h1gh · 08-30-2006, 04:57

Thanks for the reply. What makes me curious that the actual sim itself may have an effect is the fact that the contacts are different on my clonable and non-clonable sims. I have three sims all with different contact patterns, two of them I can clone, one I cannot clone.

Notice each different contact patern on cards below.

sbog · 08-30-2006, 10:00

Contact patterns play no role. I have all patterns shown above - both clonable and not for each pattern (for different providers and regions). Clonability depends on the A38 algorithm only. Of course - algo is the same within the certain party of the SIMcards.

04e46conv · 08-31-2006, 17:22

Ok so is there any way to tell what version is on your sime before you fry it??

sbog · 09-01-2006, 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04e46conv

Ok so is there any way to tell what version is on your sime before you fry it??

Only if version of A38 algo higher than v2:
v1 and v2 return 96-bit result with last ten zeroes, whereas v3 - with no "order". Unfortunately there are sim-card manufactores who use v1 but do not put zeroes to the last 10 bits of the reply. The only possible solution - to try attacks anyway (btw v3-cards seem never could be fried - they have no A38-limit).

Unfortunately - there's no way to distinguish a priori between v1 and v2. Only - to set experiment and to report your result to your mates. Every party of simcards has the same A38 algo.

h1gh · 09-02-2006, 01:14

The thing I am saying is that the cards are shipped out pre-programmed.

When you sign up for service your sim is activated.

The only reason my original V1 card stopped working was because we dropped the account, got new phone and signed a new (1) year contract, had I kept the plan, I'd still have a working cloned sim, it's not like they updated the sim and it stopped working all of a sudden on me.

So, lets say for example that I get a sim card that someone has held onto for a year or two, that hasn't been activated yet.

This seems like it would give me at least a chance the card is a V1 card, see what I am getting at here?

08-29-2006, 01:14	#1 (permalink)
h1gh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3 Member: 339721 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 0	Help with comp128 v1 & v2 sim details Hello. I have read the forums and found alot of useful information, but have a quesiton I haven't located an answer to. Last year I bought a supersim 16in1 for my tmobile (usa) gsm phones, and it worked perfectly. I bought the supersim so I could have one phone as a backup, just in case my main phone was lost, stolen, or other emergency. This year we signed up for a new tmobile plan to get free phones, so we got new sim cards and I fried the new sim card trying to clone it, obviously the new sim was a comp128 v2. My question is this. If I get a sim card that looks like my original sim that was clones successfully, does that mean it is a comp128 v1 sim card and will work, or in other words, is the difference between comp128 v1 and v2 the actual sim card itself, or is it the code that is programmed onto the sim card? Thank you in advance for any help.

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08-29-2006, 10:48	#2 (permalink)
sbog Freak Poster Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 115 Member: 66471 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 7	v1 or v2 are related to the code, namely - to the version of A38 algorithm. But manufactures of sim-card limit the number of possible runs of the algo. Beyond that limit you feel the smell of something burnt (joke - sim-card simply becomes blocked). Normally you don't reach the limit in the case of v1 and smart Ki-extracting software, but when dealing with v2 - reach for sure since v1-oriented software fails to obtain Ki. If it is not clear from the forum and other sources - such a software performes multiple runs of A38 and analyse the card responses. Thousands times. Typical A38 limit is about 60'000.

08-30-2006, 04:57	#3 (permalink)
h1gh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3 Member: 339721 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 0	Thanks for the reply. What makes me curious that the actual sim itself may have an effect is the fact that the contacts are different on my clonable and non-clonable sims. I have three sims all with different contact patterns, two of them I can clone, one I cannot clone. Notice each different contact patern on cards below.

08-30-2006, 10:00	#4 (permalink)
sbog Freak Poster Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 115 Member: 66471 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 7	Contact patterns play no role. I have all patterns shown above - both clonable and not for each pattern (for different providers and regions). Clonability depends on the A38 algorithm only. Of course - algo is the same within the certain party of the SIMcards.

08-31-2006, 17:22	#5 (permalink)
04e46conv Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5 Member: 340944 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 0	Ok so is there any way to tell what version is on your sime before you fry it??

09-02-2006, 01:14	#7 (permalink)
h1gh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3 Member: 339721 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 0	The thing I am saying is that the cards are shipped out pre-programmed. When you sign up for service your sim is activated. The only reason my original V1 card stopped working was because we dropped the account, got new phone and signed a new (1) year contract, had I kept the plan, I'd still have a working cloned sim, it's not like they updated the sim and it stopped working all of a sudden on me. So, lets say for example that I get a sim card that someone has held onto for a year or two, that hasn't been activated yet. This seems like it would give me at least a chance the card is a V1 card, see what I am getting at here?