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Go Back   GSM-Forum > GSM & CDMA Phones / Tablets Software & Hardware Area > Various > Siemens-Benq > Siemens Hardware Repair Area

Siemens Hardware Repair Area all about Hardware Repairing you can get if here.

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Old 08-26-2006, 21:10   #1 (permalink)
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Signal/Part descripions


Descriptions:

---this not ready yet - but if I tell you sth wrong ,pls post in this threat ----



One of the difficultest errors you will try to repair is a dead phone.
Different Hard- and Soft probs can be the reason.

To repair a dead phone, you should have some knowledge about the important components that a phone need to work.


What is a mobile phone:

Every mobile phone is a little computer,

it has a CPU (Central-Processing-Unit)
a RAM (Random-Access-Memory)
a ROM (Read-Only-Memory - today this ROM is mostly placed
with a Flash),
and periphical devices:
differnt I/O interfaces like keyboard, displsy (keyboard & display together
sometimes called "MMi" [MenMashineInterface]) , serial Interface (COM,USB),
IrDa, Bluetooth, a sound interface, and really important: A RF interface to communicate with a Basestation.

What is a CPU:
A CPU is a couple of transistors that do nothing without them saying what to do.

What is a Ram?
A RAM is a couple of transistors that do nothing without them saying what to do.
A RAM is to storing information tempoary, you can write content in it or read out the content. A RAM loose all its informaton if the power supply is lost.

What is a ROM?
A ROM contains the Software for the CPU. This software tells millions of transistors what to do. A ROM needs no power to hold the information in it.

This three compontnts are connected via a Databus and a Adressbus. And they have their own adress-ranges.


What needs the processor to work:

Power supply of couse...
the most mobile phones has a powersupply IC.
This IC delivers most of the in a mobilephone used voltages - but not all.
(Sometimes this component is called ASIC [Aplication-Specific-Integrated-Circuit]
what only means, that this IC is only developt for this application.)
Most of the integrated circuits in those IC are standard voltage regulators (VREG) such as a 7803 or sth else controled by a little processor.
But there are some other components init.
E.g. a I2C Bus connection, a I2S connection, a PA for the speakers, battery charge control,
a reciver for the watchdog signal from the processor.
3 switch on sensors (on/off1-KB7, on/off2-RTC_INT , Power from charger)
a.sth.e.

Some Important parts of the Power Supply Asic:

--

WA_DOG: (watchdog)

Status:
Switch on: important
Network : unimportant

If the processor halt 'couse of
an error or a HLT-command, it terminates the watchdog.
If there is no watchdog signal from the processor the ASIC shutdown atfer one second. Watchdog signal is a ca. 1 Hz digital signal.

--

I2C Bus:

Status:
Switch on: unimportant
Network : unimportant

This bus is to control the powersupply IC by the processor. The processor can tell the
ASIC to switch on and of single voltages (but this option is unused) - and this bus can be used to tell the processor measured voltage values and sth. else.

--

I2S Bus:

Status:
Switch on: unimportant
Network : unimportant
Sound : important

A I2S bus can transport sound in cd-audio quality from processor to ASIC. Mostly used for playing MP3 sound.

--

RTC_INT(erupt):

Status:
Switch on: unimportant, but can be used to switch on the mobile.
Network : unimportant


is to switch on the ASIC by the GOLD.
If the mobile is switched off, and a battery is insertet, the clock
(RTC) is runing well, and if there is a alarmtime programmed, RTC_INT goes H at alarmtime - to switch on your mobile and waking up you....

--

RESET:

Status:
Switch on: important
Network : unimportant

Reset is a 2,5V H Level that comes up after 250ms (newer models: 167ms) after switching on the powersupply.
To control the resettime there is a capacitor or a resistor assemled on the R_REF pin to GND.
The reset-signal is very important for all logical components. If reset stay L the locical components stay in reset mode. The components run when reset goes H.
The delaytime is important - becouse all components should reset during switch on. But first the supplyvoltages must be up.

Reset on L:
executes a reset. If you connect RESET to GND during your mobile is working, it will restart.

If reset stay on L-level becoue shortconnection or its open:
The mobile wont switch on.

--

R_REF:

Status:
Switch on: important
Network : unimportant

Reset reference for reset delaytime at startup.
This track has only a capacitor or a resistor connected to GND.

-----------------

different voltages:

in some series all voltages are named VREG_[component Name]
VREG_A or VREGA - that means: VoltageRegulater_Analog
VREG_RF1 or VREG_RF2 :VoltageRegulator_RadioFrequency1
or is simply numbered e.g. VREG1, VREG2 ect.

--

CCVCC (VREG_CC)

Status:
Switch on : unimportant
Network : unimportant
SIM : Important

is not importatnt for switching on, but what you doing with a phone that cant read a SIM-Card? - Only SOS Call.

ChipCard suply voltage.
It ist to suply your SIM-Card
In very very old Models 5V, in very old Models 3V and 5V,
in old models 3V and 1,8V, in newest Models only 1,8V.

--

VCC2,8V / VDD_RF1 / VREG_RF1 :
- in C60 and MC60 unused but enabled

Status:
Switch on : unimportant
Network : important
Stanbytime : TP840 problem (C60/MC60)

Own voltage-regulator for the RF IC and PLL's arround it.
VCC 2,8V is controled by the SLEEPQ signal.
In older models the VCC2,8 voltage regulator was a single part.
If no 2,8V there becouse short connection or missing SLEEPQ your mobile says: "No Network"


--


VCC_SYN (2,8V) (VDD_RF2, VREG_RF2)
- In C60/MC60 used for the complete RF part (but not PA).

Status:
Switch on: important
Network : important

- Supplys the very important 26MHz mainclock circuit.
(in older models only the supply for the 26MHz/13MHz mainclock, and a single part)
This Voltage is controled by the:

--

VCXO_EN(able) / VCOEN / VCXOEN_uC signal

Status:
Switch on: important
Network : important


- this makes the
processor able to switch off its mainclock to go in sleepmode and
to sleep with the 32,768 KHz RTC - it is to save battery energy.

If missing VCC_SYN becouse of shortconnection or missing VCXO_EN the mobile won't switch on.

--

VDD_RTC / VRTC

Status:
Switch on: important
Network : unimportant

This voltage is for the CPU integrated Real-Time-Clock.
Outside of the processor is a 32KHz cristal, mostly covered in a plastic case (named Z100,Z101,Z171 in shematics).
This voltage comes up as a battery is inserted.
It is buffered with a 10µ capacitor that makes you able to place the battery without loosing date and time.
It delivers also the H-Level for the ON/Off key via a resistor to KB7.

If missing this voltage there is no reaction and no current-consumption while trying to switch on via On/off key.
The mobile seems completly dead - only charging possible.

--

Batt+

Directly connected to Powersuply ASIC, PA, IrDa
and some standalone voltageregulators.


--

VCC2,9V (older Models)

Status:
Switch on: important
Network : important if single tracks to GOLD are damaged.

Supply for GAIM, DSP, Halfrate-CoPro (very old models) ,
and switches, EMI Filter, IrDa together with Batt+
and sth else.
But now GAIM and Copro are itegrated in the GOLD.
GAIM is the part to control the RF timing and A/D D/A converter to transmit/recive speech data via GSM.
Supply for RAM and Flash (older Models)

In newer Models:
Supply for Flash in WriteMode (else 1,8V in NormalMode)
Supply for in Gold integrated parts like GAIM.


VCC2,9V (in newest phones):
missing

--

VDD_A(nalog)

description later

--

VDD_Dig(ital)

description later

--

1,5V

description later

--


a functional main Clock (Reference Oscillator, RefOsc) (26MHz / 13MHz) of couse.




and a functional Data-/Adressbus:

The Adressbus:
The more memory the wider the adressbus. Today 24Bit wide.
The adressbus is to adress memory adresses - this can be RAM or ROM adresses.
If one track in the adressbus is shortconected to another or to GND or a supplyvoltage or is simply open, one or two bits on adressbus are wrong -
and also the adress shown on the adressbus is wrong. So the
data on the databus comes from wrong adress, and the processor recives garbage as a program to run.

-The processor halt.
-No WA_DOG sent.
-The mobile switch off.



The Databus:
In Mobile phones mostly 8 Bit wide. (newer models 16Bit)
The databus is to read/write data to the on the adressbus seen memory adress.
To decide reading or writing data from/to a memoryadress mostly a
write/read track is used (WR,RD). The state of this tracks H or L says the components reciving or writing data via the databus from/to the adress actualy seen on the adressbus.
The databus can be used to expand the adressbus, and the adressbus can be used to expand the databus.
Here is a track too, wich state decide this.

If one of those tracks are schortconnectet to another or open willt take the same effect as I said upwards.

-The processor halt.
-No WA_DOG sent.
-The mobile switch off.

Last edited by 424owe; 08-27-2006 at 22:19.
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Old 08-26-2006, 22:03   #2 (permalink)
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Very good work.

I sticked it
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Old 08-26-2006, 22:36   #3 (permalink)
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Can you descript error from power comsumption (shown an power supply usage) of a dead phone?
I think we can 'generally' "see" error from there.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

NB: very good post!
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Old 08-28-2006, 08:44   #4 (permalink)
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Seach Forum for that

Quote:
Originally Posted by HPDebug View Post
Can you descript error from power comsumption (shown an power supply usage) of a dead phone?
I think we can 'generally' "see" error from there.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

NB: very good post!
Some one already post some information about Siemens Power consumption before. But the PB is we use different kind of power supply. some one use Analouge DC supply. Any way here is the Common read out of Siemens of Simple chiness Digital DC power supply:

X65 : -
If it shows 0.01 when Power on then The set is in, Diffective Flash Chip, Diffective Ram Module, CPU, and Dialouge. Just rehot All of them and try again. Final solution is Changing RAM and Flasher. (in common SST will show IO error)

If its shows 0.01 - 0.02 Then Boot Core is Damage. Try to restore Boot Core using SST / Martech or Vikley. (I Use Vkley its work well then Other)

If its Shows 0.05 - 0.06 Means Beep Pb. Phone Just Beep off. Use sst / martech to repair. If they fails then just rehot Dialouge IC. Sometimes Its help.

If its show 0.05 - 0.06 - 0.21 - 0.05 That means Power Okey.

If its Shows un constant consumtion like 0.10 / 0.00 / 0.13 then Just rehot / reball CPU.

This is only experince by me. Its not may be 100% correct but it works for me lot of time.

If its help then I will post more.
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Old 09-08-2006, 13:25   #5 (permalink)
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Good topic...Say more about dead phone.. i am very interesting, i am beginig in siemens phone..I give many dead phone, and dont know how to solve it..So I think that you and other peaples topic lear me how to solve dead phone problem. Many thanks...
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Old 09-14-2006, 18:26   #6 (permalink)
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Could be helpful for developers: some devices in SGOLD's address map + register descriptions (in russian)
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Old 04-04-2007, 21:58   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks dagos for the post...
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Old 06-07-2007, 16:45   #8 (permalink)
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Nice post tks a lot I think its a good idea to post a consumtion and the way problem was solved Best regards
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Old 10-03-2007, 18:33   #9 (permalink)
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Good Information.
Thank.S
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:46   #10 (permalink)
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USIM in a Simens c35i ?

Chaps,

I am desperately trying to activate a UK Hutchison Telecom 3G USIM module in a Siemens c35i phone or TC35i module.

Nokia 3310 does so without a problem, but alas, the Siemens dose not.

Any help, feedback, similar experience, investigation or whatever is highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:49   #11 (permalink)
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thanks a lot , my friend !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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