BGA chip questions - GSM-Forum

Dan Collins · 05-06-2010, 18:16

Hi all,
Thought I would start a new topic that has to do with the BGA chips themselves. I always run into unknowns and I have a good one to start off with.

Anyone know if the GF-GO7600-N-A2 will work on HP boards that have GF-GO7600-H-N-B1 chips on them. What is the "H" in the part number for? I have tried a couple and the video does not work. But there could be other reasons for that. There are some HP motherboard models that do use the non-"H" version.

Has anyone tried this, or have a answer to the mysterious "H"? The suppliers do not have a clue. Half say yes, others say no to the compatibility.
I wish NVIDIA would make their datasheets available.

Dan

linears4 · 05-06-2010, 21:42

hi, yes, you can swap between the two models without issues. i don't know the meaning of the suffix "H", but i only can say that the b1 version is a more recent revision, in fact if you check, you will realize that the b1 version has a smaller die.there are also model called go7600 N B1 (without H), go7600 hs b1... and so on, but i can shure say that you can swap in the entire g73m family. but only g73

Dan Collins · 05-06-2010, 22:29

So Linears4, you have done this and it works ok? I just didn't want to risk another new GO7600-N-A2 that I have. The first two I replaced acted the same way, two different mobo's. Got the lights and fan goes high then goes slow. That is the normal action, then the video is supposed to initialize but never does. Weird.

I will try another one. Thought maybe the H version may have been a special batch for HP and the BIOS is looking for some code from it. Kind of like those darn wireless cards. If anyone knows, please share.

Thanks
Dan

linears4 · 05-06-2010, 22:57

yes, i alaways use the a2 version instead of the original b1, and it works, every time

are you shure that the defct is in the gpu? maybe you have a soldering defect

Dan Collins · 05-08-2010, 00:36

Solder defect is rare with new chips especially on two of them. But those chips are bigger and do not solder as well as the smaller BGA's so I will inspect it with the microscope.

linears4 · 05-08-2010, 10:31

i can guarantee 100% that the a2 version works in b1 version motherboard.

the only reason is a solderin issue, or maybe the chip has gone during the soldering process. i found those big chips are more sensitive to damage that the smaller ones like spp100 or g6150. Usually, if you can hear a popping sound, like a little rumor during the soldering process it means that the chip has been damaged.

pentu · 05-09-2010, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Collins

Hi all,
Thought I would start a new topic that has to do with the BGA chips themselves. I always run into unknowns and I have a good one to start off with.

Anyone know if the GF-GO7600-N-A2 will work on HP boards that have GF-GO7600-H-N-B1 chips on them. What is the "H" in the part number for? I have tried a couple and the video does not work. But there could be other reasons for that. There are some HP motherboard models that do use the non-"H" version.

Has anyone tried this, or have a answer to the mysterious "H"? The suppliers do not have a clue. Half say yes, others say no to the compatibility.
I wish NVIDIA would make their datasheets available.

Dan

Nice thread, thumbs up!

this discussion is very important for BGA rework people like us, hope to contribute.
Pentu

Dan Collins · 05-13-2010, 23:14

I have found that using kapton on the BGA helps to keep the temp down on the wafer just enough to keep it from "popping" or swelling.

Dan Collins · 05-16-2010, 18:47

OK, I have finally got one of these puppies to work. The "H" doesn't mean a thing. linears4 was correct. Thanks to him I kept trying and finally succeeded.

By the way, I think my issue for these not working was uneven heat distribution from the upper heater. I am using the reflectors, but be very cautious. You have to test where the center is or the heat will not be even all around the chip. DON'T RELY ON THE LASER. It is just as important to check for laser accuracy as it is TC accuracy. The reflectors are not centered automatically, you need to adjust them. I now use 2 TC's every time. One on each side of the chip to insure even heat. This has proven to work for me.

Dan Collins · 05-16-2010, 19:02

OK, on to a new chip. My favorite the Nvidia G6150.

I have heard from some sources that the 09 date codes have improved thermal distribution.

Can anyone verify this, and did the change really start with 09?

I can say from some experience that there seems to be less heat coming from the fans with the newer chip. But again, this could be coincidence.

Another question on this chip. Has the production ended? Will we see any 2010 chips? Seems the stock is drying up with these chips.

Be cautious of Asian vendors selling new chips that are actually used reballs. We should start posting the names of these sellers. I recently purchased some new 09 date codes that were used reballs from a Canadian vendor on eBay. They seem to work, but I paid way too much for used chips and the vendor did offer me a token refund. They now know for sure they have used chips but continue to sell them as new. What a scam.

linears4 · 05-16-2010, 22:43

i bought some g6150 as new, and never had problem. the new datacode has the small ground plates on it, completly flat, with no solder on it, and also, the color of the chip is vivid green. usually reworked chip looks a little bit darker in color. Also, generally, reballed chips have 63/37 solder balls, but it is not a rule. if it has 63/37 solder balls the are absolutely reballed. you can check the solder balls with a magnifier, unleaded solder balls looks white and less shiny.

i think that the majority of the chips sold on ebay are reworked. the only new ones are the 6150 and further generation chips like g86 and so on.

the problem is that if they come from dead motherboards, they will be dead too at my opinion even if they apparently works at a first glance

Dan Collins · 05-18-2010, 23:19

That is correct and the same reason that reflows most often do not last. BGA has been exposed to too much heat. Although I have been successful reusing G6150's from mobo's that failed from non heat issues.

I am close to setting up a G6150 test bed. I must have over a hundred pulls that I do not want to reball and use unless I know they are good chips. My test bed will have a flip top socket on a test motherboard I can test the graphic features and the heat dissipation to insure the chip is good before I use it. Another nice feature is to insure the new chips also are good before use. There is nothing worse than to go through the time and thermal cycles only to install a defective BGA.

uncleseb · 05-20-2010, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Collins

That is correct and the same reason that reflows most often do not last. BGA has been exposed to too much heat. Although I have been successful reusing G6150's from mobo's that failed from non heat issues.

I am close to setting up a G6150 test bed. I must have over a hundred pulls that I do not want to reball and use unless I know they are good chips. My test bed will have a flip top socket on a test motherboard I can test the graphic features and the heat dissipation to insure the chip is good before I use it. Another nice feature is to insure the new chips also are good before use. There is nothing worse than to go through the time and thermal cycles only to install a defective BGA.

I want to do the same project for the G86 750 A2, but it is very careful, do you have pictures of your adapter?
many thanks

Dan Collins · 05-20-2010, 20:57

Haven't got all the parts in yet. Had to custom order the flip top and it will be 8 weeks before I get it. When I put it together, I will post some pics.

uncleseb · 05-21-2010, 03:19

how much will you pay?

05-06-2010, 18:16	#1 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	BGA chip questions Hi all, Thought I would start a new topic that has to do with the BGA chips themselves. I always run into unknowns and I have a good one to start off with. Anyone know if the GF-GO7600-N-A2 will work on HP boards that have GF-GO7600-H-N-B1 chips on them. What is the "H" in the part number for? I have tried a couple and the video does not work. But there could be other reasons for that. There are some HP motherboard models that do use the non-"H" version. Has anyone tried this, or have a answer to the mysterious "H"? The suppliers do not have a clue. Half say yes, others say no to the compatibility. I wish NVIDIA would make their datasheets available. Dan

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05-06-2010, 21:42	#2 (permalink)
linears4 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Age: 52 Posts: 32 Member: 132074 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 13	hi, yes, you can swap between the two models without issues. i don't know the meaning of the suffix "H", but i only can say that the b1 version is a more recent revision, in fact if you check, you will realize that the b1 version has a smaller die.there are also model called go7600 N B1 (without H), go7600 hs b1... and so on, but i can shure say that you can swap in the entire g73m family. but only g73

05-06-2010, 22:29	#3 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	So Linears4, you have done this and it works ok? I just didn't want to risk another new GO7600-N-A2 that I have. The first two I replaced acted the same way, two different mobo's. Got the lights and fan goes high then goes slow. That is the normal action, then the video is supposed to initialize but never does. Weird. I will try another one. Thought maybe the H version may have been a special batch for HP and the BIOS is looking for some code from it. Kind of like those darn wireless cards. If anyone knows, please share. Thanks Dan

05-06-2010, 22:57	#4 (permalink)
linears4 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Age: 52 Posts: 32 Member: 132074 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 13	yes, i alaways use the a2 version instead of the original b1, and it works, every time are you shure that the defct is in the gpu? maybe you have a soldering defect

05-08-2010, 00:36	#5 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	Solder defect is rare with new chips especially on two of them. But those chips are bigger and do not solder as well as the smaller BGA's so I will inspect it with the microscope.

05-08-2010, 10:31	#6 (permalink)
linears4 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Age: 52 Posts: 32 Member: 132074 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 13	i can guarantee 100% that the a2 version works in b1 version motherboard. the only reason is a solderin issue, or maybe the chip has gone during the soldering process. i found those big chips are more sensitive to damage that the smaller ones like spp100 or g6150. Usually, if you can hear a popping sound, like a little rumor during the soldering process it means that the chip has been damaged.

05-13-2010, 23:14	#8 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	I have found that using kapton on the BGA helps to keep the temp down on the wafer just enough to keep it from "popping" or swelling.

05-16-2010, 18:47	#9 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	OK, I have finally got one of these puppies to work. The "H" doesn't mean a thing. linears4 was correct. Thanks to him I kept trying and finally succeeded. By the way, I think my issue for these not working was uneven heat distribution from the upper heater. I am using the reflectors, but be very cautious. You have to test where the center is or the heat will not be even all around the chip. DON'T RELY ON THE LASER. It is just as important to check for laser accuracy as it is TC accuracy. The reflectors are not centered automatically, you need to adjust them. I now use 2 TC's every time. One on each side of the chip to insure even heat. This has proven to work for me.

05-16-2010, 19:02	#10 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	OK, on to a new chip. My favorite the Nvidia G6150. I have heard from some sources that the 09 date codes have improved thermal distribution. Can anyone verify this, and did the change really start with 09? I can say from some experience that there seems to be less heat coming from the fans with the newer chip. But again, this could be coincidence. Another question on this chip. Has the production ended? Will we see any 2010 chips? Seems the stock is drying up with these chips. Be cautious of Asian vendors selling new chips that are actually used reballs. We should start posting the names of these sellers. I recently purchased some new 09 date codes that were used reballs from a Canadian vendor on eBay. They seem to work, but I paid way too much for used chips and the vendor did offer me a token refund. They now know for sure they have used chips but continue to sell them as new. What a scam.

05-16-2010, 22:43	#11 (permalink)
linears4 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Age: 52 Posts: 32 Member: 132074 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 13	i bought some g6150 as new, and never had problem. the new datacode has the small ground plates on it, completly flat, with no solder on it, and also, the color of the chip is vivid green. usually reworked chip looks a little bit darker in color. Also, generally, reballed chips have 63/37 solder balls, but it is not a rule. if it has 63/37 solder balls the are absolutely reballed. you can check the solder balls with a magnifier, unleaded solder balls looks white and less shiny. i think that the majority of the chips sold on ebay are reworked. the only new ones are the 6150 and further generation chips like g86 and so on. the problem is that if they come from dead motherboards, they will be dead too at my opinion even if they apparently works at a first glance

05-18-2010, 23:19	#12 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	That is correct and the same reason that reflows most often do not last. BGA has been exposed to too much heat. Although I have been successful reusing G6150's from mobo's that failed from non heat issues. I am close to setting up a G6150 test bed. I must have over a hundred pulls that I do not want to reball and use unless I know they are good chips. My test bed will have a flip top socket on a test motherboard I can test the graphic features and the heat dissipation to insure the chip is good before I use it. Another nice feature is to insure the new chips also are good before use. There is nothing worse than to go through the time and thermal cycles only to install a defective BGA.

05-20-2010, 20:57	#14 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	Haven't got all the parts in yet. Had to custom order the flip top and it will be 8 weeks before I get it. When I put it together, I will post some pics.

05-21-2010, 03:19	#15 (permalink)
uncleseb Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: FRANCE Posts: 24 Member: 1083488 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 1	how much will you pay?