Fix XBOX360 ring of death with RE-7500 - Page 5 - GSM-Forum

Raheeeeb · 11-23-2009, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by razzy35uk

cannot upload the profiles it says invalid file type so i zip them up and it still says upload failed ` how can i upload these profiles on here ?
regards

Send to my I will try to upload for you

Regards

gamestationoh · 12-02-2009, 16:34

I find the direction and lack of details about the Jovy 7500 disturbing. It is as if the members promoting this machine are using a magical method that can only be taught by trial and error... the trail and error of each individual that has already purchased an Jovy.

This makes no sense. If there are members here that own a Jovy and have used it to reflow (NOT A REBALL) an Xbox 360 or a PS3... then let them come forward with profiles and detailed tips. It is not that difficult to pass on. The Jovy only has 3 sections for profiles... Preheat - Reflow - Fast Reflow, and the temps at which to end each stage. The height adjustment is measured with markings like a ruler... So there is NO ROOM FOR ERROR!

The most of the videos presented here are commercials from Jovy, and most misleading, as the only time the machine is on is the reflow of the reballed GPU. Or... the temps are too low to reflow!

This video is an "ad" not a proof of process.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTml3-M5D-g

Now, I have a Jovy. had it for 2 weeks, had nothing but trouble from it. The profiles provided for PS3 and Xbox 360 are from other owners and not Jovy! How can a company state that their machine does something that they themselves have not done with it?

So, if this jovy 7500 works then back up the hype with facts and details.

Dan Collins · 12-03-2009, 00:30

The height adjustment is also a mystery to me. Is there some standard setting for this, or is it also trial and error. What has worked for others? Please post!

gamestationoh · 12-03-2009, 01:41

Jovy rep says start at 4", But they don't say that the 4" is at top or bottom of upper arm.??

Mine is at 3" for Xbox 360. They say you need a height that will give a temperature rise of 1C per second after upper heater is in reflow or fast reflow.

This is my point about this machine and others. If the manufacture can't supply info that is spot on, then how do they know it works??????

Here is a video of an Xbox 360 "reflow" that only reaches a temperature of 180C! The guys says that they had killed 360's when they used a temp above that! Not a reflow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dN0_6DGTpk

Raheeeeb · 12-03-2009, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamestationoh

Jovy rep says start at 4", But they don't say that the 4" is at top or bottom of upper arm.??

Mine is at 3" for Xbox 360. They say you need a height that will give a temperature rise of 1C per second after upper heater is in reflow or fast reflow.

This is my point about this machine and others. If the manufacture can't supply info that is spot on, then how do they know it works??????

Here is a video of an Xbox 360 "reflow" that only reaches a temperature of 180C! The guys says that they had killed 360's when they used a temp above that! Not a reflow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dN0_6DGTpk

Did you contact [email protected]? If ,yes. Did they not provide you with your needs ?

What you are asking about ? We can help you . Jovy Systems as any other company. Did not post at any forums.

BR//

gamestationoh · 12-03-2009, 17:45

The previous post have all my questions and conclusions. The post you quoted was an answer to the question of upper heater height.

Here is the post that needs addressing:

I find the direction and lack of details about the Jovy 7500 disturbing. It is as if the members promoting this machine are using a magical method that can only be taught by trial and error... the trail and error of each individual that has already purchased an Jovy.

This makes no sense. If there are members here that own a Jovy and have used it to reflow (NOT A REBALL) an Xbox 360 or a PS3... then let them come forward with profiles and detailed tips. It is not that difficult to pass on. The Jovy only has 3 sections for profiles... Preheat - Reflow - Fast Reflow, and the temps at which to end each stage. The height adjustment is measured with markings like a ruler... So there is NO ROOM FOR ERROR!

The most of the videos presented here are commercials from Jovy, and most misleading, as the only time the machine is on is the reflow of the reballed GPU. Or... the temps are too low to reflow!

This video is an "ad" not a proof of process.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTml3-M5D-g

Now, I have a Jovy. had it for 2 weeks, had nothing but trouble from it. The profiles provided for PS3 and Xbox 360 are from other owners and not Jovy! How can a company state that their machine does something that they themselves have not done with it?

So, if this jovy 7500 works then back up the hype with facts and details.

gamestationoh · 12-03-2009, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trion

gixxer_gixxer has only seen videos. I have repaired equipment with this machine and its a source of income for me. It indeed is well capable of reflowing Lead free PCBs without warping the boards or damaging chips. I have repaired Xbox 360s and HP DV 2000, 6000, 9000 sries laptops besides Compaq V 3000 series laptop boards where the NVIDIA lead free GPU has to be relowed. I do this using the lead free profile in the machine. I start by running the machine on preheat for a few mins and then place the board on it. This way i start the process at around 45-50 degrees and generally i get a good reflow as per the profile. Sure it may be slightly different from the profile graph, but its ok. You need to bend the temperature probe to get proper temperature readings. Also i use AMTECH flux.

The machine's preheater is more than adequate for repairing XBOX 360s besides all other consoles, laptop and desktop motherboards, mobile phone PCBs, etc. I have fixed these with this machine.

It is true that initially it takes some time to learn to handle the machine. Its only impatient people who are whining about not being able to get it to work. They don't realize that it might be they who are doing something wrong.

Working with infra red is quite different from working with hot air. But its well worth the effort put into learning it.

Are you saying that you don't use a frame to clamp the motherboard to? So, you don't get warping?

Dan Collins · 12-03-2009, 23:07

The new JV-LSU support bracket is suppose to help prevent warpage on the bigger boards. I ordered one and should have it in a week or two.

gamestationoh · 12-04-2009, 01:02

That is only available in the UK. Not in the USA.

Raheeeeb · 12-05-2009, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamestationoh

That is only available in the UK. Not in the USA.

It is available world wide . Very important to use the Supporters and also the thermal tapes.

BR//

Dan Collins · 12-06-2009, 22:00

I am in USA and I should have the JV-LSU soon.

badnes5 · 12-11-2009, 00:24

like many others - I saw the 'advert' of 360serviz and jumped at it - without realizing it couldn't be anything but an advert . I have been testing and trying to get some sort of result with 360's but to be truthful I get better results using 2 heatguns - one on top and one underneath....Still - it's a useful machine for other work -- large smd's ect.
Just a pity that it doesn't appear to work with what most people are buying it for "360 work " ---- surely jovy could come up with some xbox360 profiles or ps3 profiles --- I would probably be correct that most of the current sales are for this purpose only ? - but really the profiles are only a start -
I'm in the process of making a proper 360 jig to stop the board warping at higher temps - without this the gpu pads are ripped clean off ! ...

this machine is sold as 'reball gpu in minutes '
---------- don't think so !! -----------

Trion · 12-14-2009, 09:10

Dear people,
I'm one of those using the machine to successfully reflow AND when needed reball lead free ICs. So far for XBOX 360s i've been fortunate only to need a reflow. Whenever you do lead free based rework you need to know the solder melting temperatures. For lead free this is 215 degrees centigrade (NOT Farenheit). To get a proper temperature rise what i do is run the machine on preheat for a few minutes (2-3mins) keeping the temperature probe suspended in air at the approximate height of the board. I do this till the temperature shown is around 65-70 degrees centigrade. The i place the board on the XY table and place the probe (make sure its been bent before this the way Jovy recommends), apply flux and then start the reflow process. I have a 2.5 year old machine with no level markings. I place the heater as low as it can go (as close to the motherboard as possible). If you do the preheating as i mention and then start the profile at a temperature of around 65-70 degrees (even upto 75 degrees is ok), you will get a proper temperature rise with the machine. Though i have not had to reball XBOX 360 GPUs, i have reballed NVIDIA GPUs for HP and compaq laptops successfully and have soldered these onto motherboards and they're working. The general temperature for most GPUs is 215 degrees. Some may need you to go upto 225 degrees. Under no circumstances exceed 240 degrees as this temperature may destroy chips. I don't always use profiles as i have the knack to manually control the process. When i start the process i start with only lower heater on preheat till 80 degrees. Then i keep both lower and upper heaters on reflow till the temperature is 120 degrees. At this point i switch lower heater to fast reflow keeping upper heater on reflow till the board temp is 215 degrees. If needed i continue the heating till 225 degrees depending on the how stubborn the GPU solder is. At this temperature for sure any GPU can be taken off the board. One hint to check if a chip is lead free or not when you're unsure; first heat the board upto 183 degrees centigrade and with tweezers or any other metallic implement like a dental pick try moving any small component like a resistor, diode or capacitor next to the chip you want to reflow or remove. If this component moves at this temperature it means the board has lead based solder. If it doesn't move, it means the board has lead free solder. In this case continue heating the board till 215 degrees. At this temperature you should get a good reflow; or if you wish you can remove the chip. Only for some stubborn GPUs like NVIDIA's crappy GPUs you may need to go upto 225 degrees centigrade to remove them. For most lead free boards you can safely heat the chips upto 220 degrees. You will know hte tmeperature for a particular board with some experience.
Jovy makes good machines, but they don't really know how to teach people to use them. That's their main shortfall. When it comes to IR rework, you need to experiment and learn how to make the most of your machine.
After a couple of baords done successfully, you'll be able to do work like a pro.

When the machine is hot after doing a reflow you can do another if needed. I suggest not doing more than 3-4 in a row so as to let the machine cool down a bit so that its internal circuitry doesn't overheat.

B.R.

badnes5 · 12-14-2009, 17:56

really helpful info - many thanks !!

Trion · 12-15-2009, 20:30

I forgot to mention that at the end of the process as the temperature reaches the upper limit what i do is move the upper heater to park mode and then reduce the heat of the upper and lower heaters and turn on the fan to cool the board down. Remember not to keep the board at a high temperature (above 100 degrees) for too long as this can damage components. Also do use aluminium tape/ foil to cover plastic parts and sensitive components like electrolytic capacitors and other parts that may need protection. The main thing to get the best out of the machine is get over one's initial fear and hesitation and to keep experimenting till one gets the process right. For a long time i too was paralyzed with fear. Then Raheeeeb gave me many pointers that helped me get the machine to work properly. Then i started experimenting on my own and now i know how to get it to work for me.

B.R.

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12-02-2009, 16:34	#62 (permalink)
gamestationoh Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Member: 1173995 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 1	I find the direction and lack of details about the Jovy 7500 disturbing. It is as if the members promoting this machine are using a magical method that can only be taught by trial and error... the trail and error of each individual that has already purchased an Jovy. This makes no sense. If there are members here that own a Jovy and have used it to reflow (NOT A REBALL) an Xbox 360 or a PS3... then let them come forward with profiles and detailed tips. It is not that difficult to pass on. The Jovy only has 3 sections for profiles... Preheat - Reflow - Fast Reflow, and the temps at which to end each stage. The height adjustment is measured with markings like a ruler... So there is NO ROOM FOR ERROR! The most of the videos presented here are commercials from Jovy, and most misleading, as the only time the machine is on is the reflow of the reballed GPU. Or... the temps are too low to reflow! This video is an "ad" not a proof of process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTml3-M5D-g Now, I have a Jovy. had it for 2 weeks, had nothing but trouble from it. The profiles provided for PS3 and Xbox 360 are from other owners and not Jovy! How can a company state that their machine does something that they themselves have not done with it? So, if this jovy 7500 works then back up the hype with facts and details.

12-03-2009, 00:30	#63 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	The height adjustment is also a mystery to me. Is there some standard setting for this, or is it also trial and error. What has worked for others? Please post!

12-03-2009, 01:41	#64 (permalink)
gamestationoh Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Member: 1173995 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 1	Jovy rep says start at 4", But they don't say that the 4" is at top or bottom of upper arm.?? Mine is at 3" for Xbox 360. They say you need a height that will give a temperature rise of 1C per second after upper heater is in reflow or fast reflow. This is my point about this machine and others. If the manufacture can't supply info that is spot on, then how do they know it works?????? Here is a video of an Xbox 360 "reflow" that only reaches a temperature of 180C! The guys says that they had killed 360's when they used a temp above that! Not a reflow! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dN0_6DGTpk

12-03-2009, 17:45	#66 (permalink)
gamestationoh Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Member: 1173995 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 1	The previous post have all my questions and conclusions. The post you quoted was an answer to the question of upper heater height. Here is the post that needs addressing: I find the direction and lack of details about the Jovy 7500 disturbing. It is as if the members promoting this machine are using a magical method that can only be taught by trial and error... the trail and error of each individual that has already purchased an Jovy. This makes no sense. If there are members here that own a Jovy and have used it to reflow (NOT A REBALL) an Xbox 360 or a PS3... then let them come forward with profiles and detailed tips. It is not that difficult to pass on. The Jovy only has 3 sections for profiles... Preheat - Reflow - Fast Reflow, and the temps at which to end each stage. The height adjustment is measured with markings like a ruler... So there is NO ROOM FOR ERROR! The most of the videos presented here are commercials from Jovy, and most misleading, as the only time the machine is on is the reflow of the reballed GPU. Or... the temps are too low to reflow! This video is an "ad" not a proof of process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTml3-M5D-g Now, I have a Jovy. had it for 2 weeks, had nothing but trouble from it. The profiles provided for PS3 and Xbox 360 are from other owners and not Jovy! How can a company state that their machine does something that they themselves have not done with it? So, if this jovy 7500 works then back up the hype with facts and details.

12-03-2009, 23:07	#68 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	The new JV-LSU support bracket is suppose to help prevent warpage on the bigger boards. I ordered one and should have it in a week or two.

12-04-2009, 01:02	#69 (permalink)
gamestationoh Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5 Member: 1173995 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 1	That is only available in the UK. Not in the USA.

12-06-2009, 22:00	#71 (permalink)
Dan Collins Freak Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 210 Member: 437621 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 19	I am in USA and I should have the JV-LSU soon.

12-11-2009, 00:24	#72 (permalink)
badnes5 Freak Poster Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Edinburgh UK Posts: 171 Member: 7958 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 6	like many others - I saw the 'advert' of 360serviz and jumped at it - without realizing it couldn't be anything but an advert . I have been testing and trying to get some sort of result with 360's but to be truthful I get better results using 2 heatguns - one on top and one underneath....Still - it's a useful machine for other work -- large smd's ect. Just a pity that it doesn't appear to work with what most people are buying it for "360 work " ---- surely jovy could come up with some xbox360 profiles or ps3 profiles --- I would probably be correct that most of the current sales are for this purpose only ? - but really the profiles are only a start - I'm in the process of making a proper 360 jig to stop the board warping at higher temps - without this the gpu pads are ripped clean off ! ... this machine is sold as 'reball gpu in minutes ' ---------- don't think so !! -----------

12-14-2009, 09:10	#73 (permalink)
Trion Freak Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 370 Member: 44625 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 36	Dear people, I'm one of those using the machine to successfully reflow AND when needed reball lead free ICs. So far for XBOX 360s i've been fortunate only to need a reflow. Whenever you do lead free based rework you need to know the solder melting temperatures. For lead free this is 215 degrees centigrade (NOT Farenheit). To get a proper temperature rise what i do is run the machine on preheat for a few minutes (2-3mins) keeping the temperature probe suspended in air at the approximate height of the board. I do this till the temperature shown is around 65-70 degrees centigrade. The i place the board on the XY table and place the probe (make sure its been bent before this the way Jovy recommends), apply flux and then start the reflow process. I have a 2.5 year old machine with no level markings. I place the heater as low as it can go (as close to the motherboard as possible). If you do the preheating as i mention and then start the profile at a temperature of around 65-70 degrees (even upto 75 degrees is ok), you will get a proper temperature rise with the machine. Though i have not had to reball XBOX 360 GPUs, i have reballed NVIDIA GPUs for HP and compaq laptops successfully and have soldered these onto motherboards and they're working. The general temperature for most GPUs is 215 degrees. Some may need you to go upto 225 degrees. Under no circumstances exceed 240 degrees as this temperature may destroy chips. I don't always use profiles as i have the knack to manually control the process. When i start the process i start with only lower heater on preheat till 80 degrees. Then i keep both lower and upper heaters on reflow till the temperature is 120 degrees. At this point i switch lower heater to fast reflow keeping upper heater on reflow till the board temp is 215 degrees. If needed i continue the heating till 225 degrees depending on the how stubborn the GPU solder is. At this temperature for sure any GPU can be taken off the board. One hint to check if a chip is lead free or not when you're unsure; first heat the board upto 183 degrees centigrade and with tweezers or any other metallic implement like a dental pick try moving any small component like a resistor, diode or capacitor next to the chip you want to reflow or remove. If this component moves at this temperature it means the board has lead based solder. If it doesn't move, it means the board has lead free solder. In this case continue heating the board till 215 degrees. At this temperature you should get a good reflow; or if you wish you can remove the chip. Only for some stubborn GPUs like NVIDIA's crappy GPUs you may need to go upto 225 degrees centigrade to remove them. For most lead free boards you can safely heat the chips upto 220 degrees. You will know hte tmeperature for a particular board with some experience. Jovy makes good machines, but they don't really know how to teach people to use them. That's their main shortfall. When it comes to IR rework, you need to experiment and learn how to make the most of your machine. After a couple of baords done successfully, you'll be able to do work like a pro. When the machine is hot after doing a reflow you can do another if needed. I suggest not doing more than 3-4 in a row so as to let the machine cool down a bit so that its internal circuitry doesn't overheat. B.R.

12-14-2009, 17:56	#74 (permalink)
badnes5 Freak Poster Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Edinburgh UK Posts: 171 Member: 7958 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 6	really helpful info - many thanks !!

12-15-2009, 20:30	#75 (permalink)
Trion Freak Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 370 Member: 44625 Status: Offline Thanks Meter: 36	I forgot to mention that at the end of the process as the temperature reaches the upper limit what i do is move the upper heater to park mode and then reduce the heat of the upper and lower heaters and turn on the fan to cool the board down. Remember not to keep the board at a high temperature (above 100 degrees) for too long as this can damage components. Also do use aluminium tape/ foil to cover plastic parts and sensitive components like electrolytic capacitors and other parts that may need protection. The main thing to get the best out of the machine is get over one's initial fear and hesitation and to keep experimenting till one gets the process right. For a long time i too was paralyzed with fear. Then Raheeeeb gave me many pointers that helped me get the machine to work properly. Then i started experimenting on my own and now i know how to get it to work for me. B.R.