Fix XBOX360 ring of death with RE-7500

[Burnt Cobba]

can anyone answer me this simple question....

what do the xbox repair center in frankfurt do to repair them? Do they reball the ICs or swap the motherboard? i believe swapping is a far fetched solution since each drive is tied to a specific motherboard unless they have some kind of equipment to do it easily.

am sending mine to them since at least M$ did extend the RROD warranty up to 3 years.

[MISTER_CHIP]

Originally Posted by Trion

Dear people,
I'm one of those using the machine to successfully reflow AND when needed reball lead free ICs. So far for XBOX 360s i've been fortunate only to need a reflow. Whenever you do lead free based rework you need to know the solder melting temperatures. For lead free this is 215 degrees centigrade (NOT Farenheit). To get a proper temperature rise what i do is run the machine on preheat for a few minutes (2-3mins) keeping the temperature probe suspended in air at the approximate height of the board. I do this till the temperature shown is around 65-70 degrees centigrade. The i place the board on the XY table and place the probe (make sure its been bent before this the way Jovy recommends), apply flux and then start the reflow process. I have a 2.5 year old machine with no level markings. I place the heater as low as it can go (as close to the motherboard as possible). If you do the preheating as i mention and then start the profile at a temperature of around 65-70 degrees (even upto 75 degrees is ok), you will get a proper temperature rise with the machine. Though i have not had to reball XBOX 360 GPUs, i have reballed NVIDIA GPUs for HP and compaq laptops successfully and have soldered these onto motherboards and they're working. The general temperature for most GPUs is 215 degrees. Some may need you to go upto 225 degrees. Under no circumstances exceed 240 degrees as this temperature may destroy chips. I don't always use profiles as i have the knack to manually control the process. When i start the process i start with only lower heater on preheat till 80 degrees. Then i keep both lower and upper heaters on reflow till the temperature is 120 degrees. At this point i switch lower heater to fast reflow keeping upper heater on reflow till the board temp is 215 degrees. If needed i continue the heating till 225 degrees depending on the how stubborn the GPU solder is. At this temperature for sure any GPU can be taken off the board. One hint to check if a chip is lead free or not when you're unsure; first heat the board upto 183 degrees centigrade and with tweezers or any other metallic implement like a dental pick try moving any small component like a resistor, diode or capacitor next to the chip you want to reflow or remove. If this component moves at this temperature it means the board has lead based solder. If it doesn't move, it means the board has lead free solder. In this case continue heating the board till 215 degrees. At this temperature you should get a good reflow; or if you wish you can remove the chip. Only for some stubborn GPUs like NVIDIA's crappy GPUs you may need to go upto 225 degrees centigrade to remove them. For most lead free boards you can safely heat the chips upto 220 degrees. You will know hte tmeperature for a particular board with some experience.
Jovy makes good machines, but they don't really know how to teach people to use them. That's their main shortfall. When it comes to IR rework, you need to experiment and learn how to make the most of your machine.
After a couple of baords done successfully, you'll be able to do work like a pro.

When the machine is hot after doing a reflow you can do another if needed. I suggest not doing more than 3-4 in a row so as to let the machine cool down a bit so that its internal circuitry doesn't overheat.

B.R.

TRADUCCIÓN DE GOOGLE AL ESPAÑOL

Querida gente,
Yo soy uno de los usuarios de la máquina con éxito de reflujo y cuando Reball necesario llevar ICs libre. Hasta ahora para XBOX 360 que he tenido la suerte sólo necesita un reflujo. Cada vez que se llevan reproceso gratuito basado en lo que necesita saber la temperatura de la soldadura de fusión. Para este libre de plomo es de 215 grados centígrados (NO Fahrenheit).

Para obtener una temperatura adecuada lugar lo que hago es ejecutar el equipo en el precalentamiento durante unos minutos (2-3 minutos) el mantenimiento de la sonda de temperatura en suspensión en el aire a la altura aproximada de la Junta. Hago esto hasta que la temperatura que se muestra es alrededor de 65-70 grados centígrados. La pongo a la Junta sobre la mesa XY y la sonda (asegúrese de que su inclinación sido antes de esta manera la Jovy recomienda), se aplican de flujo y luego iniciar el proceso de reflujo.

Tengo una vieja máquina de 2,5 años, sin marcas de nivel. Pongo el calentador lo más bajo que puede ir (lo más cercano a la placa base como sea posible). Si lo hace el precalentamiento como menciono a continuación, inicie el perfil a una temperatura de alrededor de 65-70 grados (aunque upto 75 grados está bien), obtendrá un aumento de la temperatura adecuada con la máquina. Aunque no he tenido que Reball XBOX 360 GPU, he reballed GPUs de NVIDIA para portátiles de HP y Compaq con éxito y han soldado en estas placas base y que están trabajando.

La temperatura general para la mayoría de las GPUs es de 215 grados. Algunos pueden necesitar a ir hasta 225 grados. En ningún caso supere los 240 grados ya que la temperatura puede destruir los chips. No siempre utilizan perfiles como tengo la habilidad para controlar manualmente el proceso. Cuando inicio el proceso que comience con sólo calentador de baja el precalentamiento de hasta 80 grados. Entonces guardo tanto inferior y superior de los calentadores de reflujo hasta que la temperatura es de 120 grados. En este punto de conmutación i calentador inferior a reflujo rápido de mantenimiento de la parte superior del calentador de reflujo hasta que la temperatura a bordo es de 215 grados. Si necesitaba continuar el calentamiento hasta 225 grados dependiendo de la forma obstinada la soldadura GPU. A esta temperatura para asegurarse de cualquier GPU puede ser retirado del tablero.

Una sugerencia para comprobar si un chip es libre de plomo o no, cuando no estás seguro, el calor de la primera Junta upto 183 grados centígrados, y con unas pinzas o cualquier otro instrumento metálico como un palillo de dientes trate de mover cualquiera de los componentes pequeños, como una resistencia, un diodo o un condensador junto a la ficha que desea reflujo o eliminar. Si este componente se mueve a esta temperatura significa que la Junta ha basado en soldadura de plomo. Si no se mueve, significa que la Junta ha soldadura sin plomo. En este caso, seguir calentando la junta hasta 215 grados. A esta temperatura se debe conseguir una buena reflujo, o si lo desea, puede quitar el chip. Sólo para algunos GPUs terco como crappy GPUs de NVIDIA puede que tenga que ir hasta 225 grados centígrados para eliminarlos. Para las placas más libre de plomo de manera segura puede calentar el upto chips de 220 grados. Usted sabrá tmeperature hte de una junta especial con algo de experiencia.


Jovy hace buenas máquinas, pero no sé realmente cómo enseñar a la gente a usarlos. Esa es su principal déficit. Cuando se trata de volver a trabajar IR, tiene que experimentar y aprender a sacar el máximo provecho de su máquina.
Después de un par de baords hecho con éxito, usted podrá hacer el trabajo como un profesional.

Cuando la máquina está caliente después de hacer un reflujo puede hacer otra si es necesario. Yo sugiero no hacer más de 3-4 en una fila para dejar que la máquina se enfríe un poco para que los circuitos internos no se sobrecaliente.

__________________________________________________ ______

Un cordial saludo desde www.reballing.es

[badnes5]

Originally Posted by Burnt Cobba

can anyone answer me this simple question....

what do the xbox repair center in frankfurt do to repair them? Do they reball the ICs or swap the motherboard? i believe swapping is a far fetched solution since each drive is tied to a specific motherboard unless they have some kind of equipment to do it easily.

am sending mine to them since at least M$ did extend the RROD warranty up to 3 years.

pretty sure it's a swap - when you look at a microsoft refurb the board looks brand new - also gpu has glue round corners to secure chip better.
no evidence of flux or heat whatsoever-
i don't think they would take the risk of repair incase it failed after a short time ... with a new board they wouldn't have to test ... pop in your old drive and pair the two together with either dvd disc or testpoint on motherboard.
they supply a short report telling you what's been changed.Sometimes they change both drive and motherboard so it's a complete new machine

- In the early days we were seeing machines back which still had the drive modded !! .. now the seal is scrutinized and anything ' tampered' with is returned within a few days.

It's a pretty big logistical exersice getting a machine collected /repaired/returned - they wouldn't take the risk of them bouncing back every few weeks..... would be too costly.

don't forget - they'll mass produce that board for nearly nothing

[badnes5]

trion - how are you stopping the boards from flexing and pulling the gpu from the board ? ... i have had 2 supports made which bolt through the holes for the heatsink which is helping a great deal -

another thing - always test your temperature probe - i checked with a calibrated temp meter and it's 18C out - reads low !

[Burnt Cobba]

Originally Posted by badnes5

pretty sure it's a swap - when you look at a microsoft refurb the board looks brand new - also gpu has glue round corners to secure chip better.
no evidence of flux or heat whatsoever-
i don't think they would take the risk of repair incase it failed after a short time ... with a new board they wouldn't have to test ... pop in your old drive and pair the two together with either dvd disc or testpoint on motherboard.
they supply a short report telling you what's been changed.Sometimes they change both drive and motherboard so it's a complete new machine

- In the early days we were seeing machines back which still had the drive modded !! .. now the seal is scrutinized and anything ' tampered' with is returned within a few days.

It's a pretty big logistical exersice getting a machine collected /repaired/returned - they wouldn't take the risk of them bouncing back every few weeks..... would be too costly.

don't forget - they'll mass produce that board for nearly nothing

very bad news for me.... i will be expecting the console back very soon then as the silver sticker is not 100% ok. if it is going to be scrutinized then i m screwed.... hard luck. however i find it strange that some 3 weeks ago a guy got his back and his drive was still modded.

[sgourley77]

Alright we own a Jovy RE-7500. We use it Xbox 360 repairs. We have a video up on youtube for the jovy reflow on an Xbox. This machine has not been the easiest to use. We got not help from jovy and had to figure it out on our own. The machine comes with Xbox 360 profiles that we show in the video. You can hook it up to the computer but we can't figure out how to adjust the profiles. I am wondering if the person who made the profiles did not have the thermal Coupler set right and that is why they are so low. It only goes up to 180C. At first we were burning up all the boards. Then we fixed the TC and couldn't run the profile b/c it wasn't working (not getting hot enough). We ran the machine without a computer and it worked great. But because of making a loop on the TC it made it weak and then just broke off one day. Now if we run the temp up to 215 it burns up the board. If we run the profile now it works great. But we are not getting an acutal temp reading. If you go to youtube and look up sgourley77 or google xbox 360 reflow jovy re-7500 videos you can watch our video. Yes now this machine is easy to use. But it took alot of time and burning up Xbox's to make it work. Jovy offers no help and no guides.

[sgourley77]

We have a board that was built for the xbox by someone. We do not use the xyz table.

[Raheeeeb]

Originally Posted by sgourley77

Alright we own a Jovy RE-7500. We use it Xbox 360 repairs. We have a video up on youtube for the jovy reflow on an Xbox. This machine has not been the easiest to use. We got not help from jovy and had to figure it out on our own.

Could you please confirm that you asked for support from the company and no response , or you talking about the one sold the machine to you .

@ppl here

Support is a case sensitive , we open that section here from long time ago . to offer application support from forum to members. we appropriate some people help and time . we need more from experienced people done successful application with RE 7500.

we will support them completely . and any problem PM me any time ,we will do our best.

BR//

Raheeeeb

[sgourley77]

When we bought the machine the person we bought it from got us in contact with the jovy dealer in the United States. I never emailed jovy support. But the dealer was not much help. Any parts we needed, not a problem. When we asked him about T/C placement, the graph, temp settings, some sort of guide or tut. His reply was always sorry I don't know or no there are no guides, just follow the profiles, things like that. I don't know if contacting support would have been any different. We love the jovy now. But it just took so long to learn it on our own. I don't know if support at jovy.com is different. It very well may be. They just don't have instructions, guides, pictures. videos, anything. But once you take the time to learn it, it is great!

[Trion]

XBOX 360 repair videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZPOMUSW6iw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C0Lp...eature=related

Please note they're using a special support.

The videos are in spanish, but hey, we got the internet and anyone can use babelfish.com or other translators.

sgourley77's video on xbox360 repair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dN0_6DGTpk

[Trion]

Removing epoxy from the XBox360 processors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLhH0yDCcQk&NR=1

[sgourley77]

I found a picture of where jovy say the temp prob needs to go. We have been playing around with different places to put the temp prob. We are going to get some videos and post them here in the next week or two. But we were able to lift the chip at 195c. That tells me it is hotter than what everyone thinks. I dont know we will play around some more

[uncleseb]

I had problems with the original probe, it was not fair, I replaced by a simple and since it goes well it indicates the correct temperature (verified with infrared thermometer)
[IMG]http://******presshk.com/ebayproducts/8060/Ktype.jpg[/IMG]

[badnes5]

Originally Posted by Trion

Removing epoxy from the XBox360 processors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLhH0yDCcQk&NR=1

we use a hot air reflow torch with a pencil tip - heat the glue up (300+) and it just falls off with a blunt spatula or blade.

also made up holder for 360 boards - similar to jovy support bracket - helps a great deal - boards no longer bend .... however were still not convinced whether to heat the boards slowly up to temp (can cause problems with the ram chips) or try to almost 'flash' heat GPU to remove quickly (avoid board distortion .... thing is - if it's heated slowly and distorts - the pads can rip off the bottom of gpu or board .... leaving the thing scrap.
I think the machine will be great for reballing the gpu ( with lead solder - due to lower temp required) but not so great for removing it in the first place !

we were going to try using pre-heater to heat up board to 85c then use a hot air station to heat the top of gpu - instead of top heater .... this may be quicker and more directional also possibly more controllable --- as you know the whole process can become a bit uncontrollable if you are not paying attention ! - there can be too much heat very quickly .

any thoughts ?

[badnes5]

another thought - what sort of flux has anyone found to give best results ? - we use rework flux supplied by rscomponents.... probably not the best !