Fix XBOX360 ring of death with RE-7500

[pentu]

Originally Posted by badnes5

another thought - what sort of flux has anyone found to give best results ? - we use rework flux supplied by rscomponents.... probably not the best !

use interflux IF8300 flux , this is a very high quality tacky / gel flux, very costly in india, 100 grams, Rs. 2500 (nearly 60$), even little amount covers large area of BGA REWORK.
B/R

[gixxer_gixxer]

Hi, things I have found with 7500:- temp probe to software cal miles out upto 20 deg c low, fan way to strong, jig not adjustable UP or Down, no way to reduce heat aperture on upper heater(i.e. for smaller work), pick up pencil awkward to use at critical moment, good points, very well made quality wise, it has the ability with a lot of time and effort to work well and the software allows great versatility as long as ambient background temp is warm! xbox 360 gpu reflow, done 10+ xbox motherboards all trashed with various settings, forget profiles waste of time, do it manually then build a profile to this ;-) , the board domes up with heat as its 4-layered pcb and very high quality but not good for our system to work with, sgourley77 vid on youtube does mean nothing in terms of a valid re-flow, the only vid I have seen that probably works is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQean...eature=related (watch and learn!!), everything else has no propper control and if works its luck more than skill, I have felt cheated by all these companies that claim xbox 360 bga repair etc etc, this is a skilled task as can be seen from this vid with equipment costing £30,000+ te jovy is fine for mobile phone repairs, leaded motherboard repairs, plastic smt repairs, but large lead free BGA with a small base heater, I STILL DON'T KNOW, I have one final test/setup to do with an xbox 360 with jovy, if this doesn't work then its gonna be for sale ;-)

[gixxer_gixxer]

So cut the crap unless you have a valid set-up that works and help fellow jovy owners then you may get some support back!!!!

[Trion]

@gixxer_gixxer,

Preheat the board to around 65-70 degrees manually first and then do rework/ reflow using profiles if you are doing so. I do agree that one needs to experiment with the machine till one gets it perfect. Supports are needed for xbox360. If your board is getting so heated up that its getting warped, something is wrong. This could be the probe placement, or you are not preheating the board BEFORE running a profile. Apply some flux on the board where you place the probe. I have been through many different experiences before i got enough confidence to do board rework. I'm now mostly fixing laptops with lead free BGAs and these are large BGAs. So even though you haven't yet got your set up to work for you it doesn't mean its not possible. I'm sure with some tweaking even your machine can be got to work properly for you.

B.R.

[Raheeeeb]

Here are my steps for Re-Flow X-Box GPU for error 074

• Things should be used

JV-F030 (Flux of 30cc)
JV-K030 (protective Kapton tape)
JV-LSU ( 2 supporters )

• Things to do before starting re-flow

Cover the GPU with protective tape after you clean the thermal paste .
The thermocouple prop bended 6 mm , put in upper side of the GPU on PCB not over the GPU and touch with all the 6 mm area the PCB surface.
Apply the flux on 3 sides of the GPU.
Use 2 of the supporters under the GPU
Never use the lower heater in Re-flow mode or Fast reflow Mode in all your re-flowing
Make the profile end on 195
Don't use the fan for cooling when PCB over 120 (never)

• Manual & Profile control

Preheat the PCB manually to 60 degree , use preheat mode ( do not be hurry )
Use profile you got from JOVY (do not forget to make the profile ends on 195 this is my way)
When you starts the profile make the upper heater to level 3 or a little bit lower.
At 160 make the upper heater to 4
Heaters setting is ok in the original profile
Most important do not turn the upper heater to park mode , after finish the profile keep the heater in same position until the PCB reaches 210 then you will see clearly the temperature will go down , turn the upper heater to park mode when PCB is 180 , start the fan on 120 or lower .

Most than important Do not remove the PCB from holder before it come to 50 and become cold .

Hope this end the arguments here . Simply you have to spend time with your new machine . before all people use hot air and hot gun or light fast IR . here you use dark IR . this is like people used hot air in 1997 and burn huge number of PCB . Unless you understand your machine you will not get the benefit.

Regards to all

Raheeeeb

[gixxer_gixxer]

Originally Posted by Trion

@gixxer_gixxer,

Preheat the board to around 65-70 degrees manually first and then do rework/ reflow using profiles if you are doing so. I do agree that one needs to experiment with the machine till one gets it perfect. Supports are needed for xbox360. If your board is getting so heated up that its getting warped, something is wrong. This could be the probe placement, or you are not preheating the board BEFORE running a profile. Apply some flux on the board where you place the probe. I have been through many different experiences before i got enough confidence to do board rework. I'm now mostly fixing laptops with lead free BGAs and these are large BGAs. So even though you haven't yet got your set up to work for you it doesn't mean its not possible. I'm sure with some tweaking even your machine can be got to work properly for you.

B.R.

Hi thanks for the help, but I have tried pre-heating before with reflow oven at around 80 degc, I always do my reflows manually first until i am happy with consistent result, then I create a profile with notes on slight adjustments (i.e. ambient temps), I am still hoping to succeed with this!

[gixxer_gixxer]

Originally Posted by Raheeeeb

Here are my steps for Re-Flow X-Box GPU for error 074

• Things should be used

JV-F030 (Flux of 30cc)
JV-K030 (protective Kapton tape)
JV-LSU ( 2 supporters )

• Things to do before starting re-flow

Cover the GPU with protective tape after you clean the thermal paste .
The thermocouple prop bended 6 mm , put in upper side of the GPU on PCB not over the GPU and touch with all the 6 mm area the PCB surface.
Apply the flux on 3 sides of the GPU.
Use 2 of the supporters under the GPU
Never use the lower heater in Re-flow mode or Fast reflow Mode in all your re-flowing
Make the profile end on 195
Don't use the fan for cooling when PCB over 120 (never)

• Manual & Profile control

Preheat the PCB manually to 60 degree , use preheat mode ( do not be hurry )
Use profile you got from JOVY (do not forget to make the profile ends on 195 this is my way)
When you starts the profile make the upper heater to level 3 or a little bit lower.
At 160 make the upper heater to 4
Heaters setting is ok in the original profile
Most important do not turn the upper heater to park mode , after finish the profile keep the heater in same position until the PCB reaches 210 then you will see clearly the temperature will go down , turn the upper heater to park mode when PCB is 180 , start the fan on 120 or lower .

Most than important Do not remove the PCB from holder before it come to 50 and become cold .

Hope this end the arguments here . Simply you have to spend time with your new machine . before all people use hot air and hot gun or light fast IR . here you use dark IR . this is like people used hot air in 1997 and burn huge number of PCB . Unless you understand your machine you will not get the benefit.

Regards to all

Raheeeeb

OK many thanks Raheeeb, four points though:-

1. if the profile ends @ 195 deg c how is it going to ramp to 210 deg c?

2. if the flux liquid clear flux or paste flux?

3. do you have a pic of your gpu/motherboard supports?

4. show me pic of protective tape on GPU (this will deflect heat from where it is needed or I misunderstood or is it kraftan tape?)

Gixxer

[Raheeeeb]

Originally Posted by gixxer_gixxer

OK many thanks Raheeeb, four points though:-

1. if the profile ends @ 195 deg c how is it going to ramp to 210 deg c?

2. if the flux liquid clear flux or paste flux?

3. do you have a pic of your gpu/motherboard supports?

4. show me pic of protective tape on GPU (this will deflect heat from where it is needed or I misunderstood or is it kraftan tape?)

Gixxer

1. The upper heater is IR, it will keep emitting even heaters Off - heat dissipation of the Chip will be slow due to Kapton tape cover.

2- Gel Flux (JV-030)

3&4 - have a look in latest videos on video download area ( Soldering secondary CPU for PS3) jovy main website
NB. protective tape is a kapton (polymerized) thin sticky tape it is protect the the small components over the GPU and the upper layer of the GPU especially when upper heater in lower levels (2). it is not reflective aluminum tape.

process time not concerns ( but not exceed 250 seconds for all the job , max 40 seconds for TAL), if you taking care about GPU durability after repair or PCB color change.

Thx

[gixxer_gixxer]

Originally Posted by Raheeeeb

1. The upper heater is IR, it will keep emitting even heaters Off - heat dissipation of the Chip will be slow due to Kapton tape cover.

2- Gel Flux (JV-030)

3&4 - have a look in latest videos on video download area ( Soldering secondary CPU for PS3) jovy main website
NB. protective tape is a kapton (polymerized) thin sticky tape it is protect the the small components over the GPU and the upper layer of the GPU especially when upper heater in lower levels (2). it is not reflective aluminum tape.

process time not concerns ( but not exceed 250 seconds for all the job , max 40 seconds for TAL), if you taking care about GPU durability after repair or PCB color change.

Thx

Hi many thanks Raheeb, the link for the video is down

http://www.jovy-systems.com/Video/Fi...ng%20PS3%20CPU


Gixxer

[MISTER_CHIP]

Raheeb, I'm doing reflows successfully, but my processes are taken a little longer than 900 seconds. I put the bracket of P.C.B. on the X-Y table. The upper heater put it on number 7 ... Perhaps I should remove the table and put the media directly on the machine ... I do not know ... Continuous experiencing.

Merry Christmas 2009/2010 !!!

[gixxer_gixxer]

Originally Posted by MISTER_CHIP

Raheeb, I'm doing reflows successfully, but my processes are taken a little longer than 900 seconds. I put the bracket of P.C.B. on the X-Y table. The upper heater put it on number 7 ... Perhaps I should remove the table and put the media directly on the machine ... I do not know ... Continuous experiencing.

Merry Christmas 2009/2010 !!!

hi, which pcb bracket are you using?

gixxer

[MISTER_CHIP]

Originally Posted by gixxer_gixxer

hi, which pcb bracket are you using?

gixxer

Ok, i´m using one like this http://www.reballing.es/viewtopic.ph...&t=150&start=0

Best regards.

[gixxer_gixxer]

Originally Posted by MISTER_CHIP

Ok, i´m using one like this http://www.reballing.es/viewtopic.ph...&t=150&start=0

Best regards.

Thank you Mister_chip that is fantastic, merry christmas you have lot of success with jovy and xbox now?

Gixxer

[gixxer_gixxer]

Originally Posted by gixxer_gixxer

Hi many thanks Raheeb, the link for the video is down

http://www.jovy-systems.com/Video/Fi...ng%20PS3%20CPU


Gixxer

Perhaps someone could correct this!

[linears4]

board domes up if they are too big or not stiff enough... this will happen in most cases, for example in xbox360 motherboard, or in those bord where the reworking chip is on the center of the board... jovy is not so good for rework of very large board, except in case of very strurdy motherboards like asus.

the only way to avoid board flexing is to have a large preheat area. the boards domes up because there is a hot area, and the surrounding relatively cold area.. hot area try to expand as normally, but the surrounding cold areas ar not doing it, so the expanding force of the hot area makes the board flexing up, or down.

whit a larger preheat area all the points of the board are at almost the same temperature so the board will expand in the same manner in all it's points.